On Apr 6, 2010, at 10:50 PM, Paul J Davis wrote:

> This corruption was quite odd in that there wasn't a conspicuous reason for 
> it.  I didn't dive to deep into the whole thing so it's possible i missed 
> something obvious. 

The instance was unresponsive to ssh for 12 hours.  The report from AWS Support 
was merely a "problem with the underlying host" followed by a recommendation to 
"launch a replacement at your earliest convenience".  I don't know what the 
gremlins were doing behind the scenes, but I'm not surprised the files are 
corrupted :)

> There are two things at play here.  How proactive should we be in provoking 
> these errors and how much should we check for situations where our data file 
> got trounced.
> 
> The extreme proactive position would be equivalent to a full table scan per 
> write which is out of the question. So to some extent we won't be able to 
> detect some errors until read time which is an unknowable interval.

I'm totally comfortable with only detecting them at read-time.

> The other aspect is how rigorous should we check reads? This extreme would 
> basically require a sha1 for every read or write no matter how small, not to 
> mention the storage overhead. This part I'm not sure about. There's probably 
> middle ground with crc sums and what not but i don't see a clear answer.

We currently store MD5 checksums with document bodies and validate them on 
reads.  It hasn't proven to be an undue burden.

Best, Adam

> Basically, the question is how much should we attempt to detect when hardware 
> lies.  I reckon that there's probably a middle ground to report when an 
> assumption is violated and full on table scans. Ideally such things would be 
> fairly configurable but i sure don't see an obvious answer.
> 
> 
> On Apr 6, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Randall Leeds <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> I immediately want to say 'ini file option' but I'm not sure whether to err
>> on safety or speed.
>> 
>> Maybe this is a good candidate for merkle trees or something else we can do
>> throughout the view tree that might less overhead than md5 summing all the
>> nodes? After all, most inner nodes shouldn't change most of the time. Some
>> incremental, cheap checksum might be a worthwhile *option*.
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2010 6:04 PM, "Adam Kocoloski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, we recently had an EC2 node go AWOL for about 12 hours.  When it
>> came back, we noticed after a few days that a number of the view indexes
>> stored on that node were not updating.  I did some digging into the error
>> logs and with Paul's help pieced together what was going on.  I won't bother
>> you with all the gory details unless you ask for them, but the gist of it is
>> that those files are corrupted.
>> 
>> The troubling thing for me is that we only discovered the corruption when it
>> completely broke the index updates.  In one case, it did this by rearranging
>> the bits so that couch_file thought that the btree node it was reading from
>> disk had an associated MD5 checksum. It didn't (no btree nodes do), and so
>> couch_file threw a file_corruption exception.  But if the corruption had
>> shown up in another part of the file I might never have known.  In fact,
>> some of the other indices on that node probably are silently corrupted.
>> 
>> You might wonder how likely it is that a file becomes corrupted but still
>> appears to be functioning.  I checked the last modified timestamps for three
>> broken files.  One was last modified when the node went down, but the other
>> two had timestamps in between the node's recovery and now.  To me, that
>> means that the view indexer was able to update those files for quite a while
>> (~2 days) before it bumped into a part of the btree that was corrupted.
>> 
>> I wonder what we should do about this.  My first thought is to make it
>> optional to write  btree nodes (possibly only for view index files?) using
>> append_term_md5 instead of append_term.  It seems like a simple patch, but I
>> don't know a priori what the performance hit would be.  Other thoughts?
>> 
>> Best, Adam

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