Big fat +1 for all of this. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Jason Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> A brief diversion from sticking to technical facts in this thread: > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:46 AM, Randall Leeds <[email protected]> > wrote: > > But build-couchdb still _builds_ couchdb, so it's not the dream of a > > "download-and-run-it" binary. The primary difference in the end > > between build-couchdb and a standard source build is that the deps are > > all wrapped up in the install prefix and kept separate from the user > > system. What Jan was proposing was something like the _result_ of > > build-couchdb builds, on several OS/architecture combinations, ready > > to go. > > > > And to be honest, I'm totally fine with that. But, users are getting > > more and more used to package managers even outside the *nix world, so > > great downstream packaging is also key. I think this is the same > > topic. > > > > It's really starting to sound like nothing's much wrong with our > > source tree as just that our download page, and our packaging > > community, doesn't get users where they need to go easily enough. > > Randall, thanks for moving the conversation back to goals and > non-goals of a hypothetical binary distribution. That will illuminate > a subsequent discussion about tooling and execution. > > Noah and I have each asked whether people *really* want a > download-and-run executable. Recall the Steve Jobs quote, "You can't > just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them." > > Many users were briefly satisfied with build-couchdb's "just works" > behavior, but ultimately disappointed that it requires manual > startup/shutdown integration, manual log management, and manual > upgrades. > > I strongly agree with Jan that the community needs turnkey CouchDB, > but I share Noah's skepticism whether ./bin/couchdb is the best we can > do. > > > Concrete next steps? > > > > For me, I'm going to try to get a clean debian patch branch based off > > the latest packaging I can find, start building CouchDB in a chroot > > and put it in my PPA. > > CouchDB as a desktop app is exciting. It reminds me of the joke that > Linux is where you run web applications, Mac is where you develop web > applications, and Windows is where you debug Internet Explorer bugs > for web applications. Every desktop Couch user is a larval server > Couch user, long-term developer, and community member. (Larva! Ew, > it's nasty. It's so nasty.) > > IMO, as a CouchDB user, somebody who has to test upgrades and > compatibility often: > > * An Ubuntu PPA > * A free app in the Mac App Store > * Whatever Windows does (.msi installer?) > * An Android app, either in the Marketplace or maybe Amazon > * An iPhone app in the App Store > > Notes: > > 1. If we achieved Jan's hypothetical ./bin/couchdb milestone, we would > be very close to achieving the above list. Mostly it's jumping through > a few procedural hoops. > > 2. All (most?) of these imply an official install, uninstall, and > upgrade process, but we wouldn't have to write that ourselves (the > "check for updates" feature) > > 3. The mobile apps are not an SDK, but like Android's DavDrive, > http://davdrive-android.fun2code.de/ -- you run the app, it tells you > your phone's IP, and you hit it with your browser (or CouchApp, or > whatever). You could actually develop entire couch apps and replicate > them to your production server. Quit the app, couch is gone. Remove > the app, the data is gone. > > -- > Iris Couch >
