Jörg Hoh created FELIX-4670:
-------------------------------
Summary: Deadlock in Felix HTTP service
Key: FELIX-4670
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FELIX-4670
Project: Felix
Issue Type: Bug
Components: HTTP Service
Affects Versions: http-2.2.0
Environment: Websphere 7.0, IBM Java 6.0
Reporter: Jörg Hoh
When we startup our webapplication, we sometimes run into a deadlock:
{code}
1LKDEADLOCK Deadlock detected !!!
NULL ---------------------
NULL
2LKDEADLOCKTHR Thread "server.startup : 1" (0x0000000001DDC800)
3LKDEADLOCKWTR is waiting for:
4LKDEADLOCKMON sys_mon_t:0x00007FFFBBB61F20 infl_mon_t: 0x00007FFFBBB61F90:
4LKDEADLOCKOBJ
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/manager/ExtenderManager@0x00000001014B3650/0x00000001014B365C:
3LKDEADLOCKOWN which is owned by:
2LKDEADLOCKTHR Thread "FelixStartLevel" (0x0000000002156100)
3LKDEADLOCKWTR which is waiting for:
4LKDEADLOCKMON sys_mon_t:0x00007FFFBBBBA340 infl_mon_t: 0x00007FFFBBBBA3B0:
4LKDEADLOCKOBJ
org/apache/felix/http/base/internal/handler/HandlerRegistry@0x00000001070D6EA0/0x00000001070D6EAC:
3LKDEADLOCKOWN which is owned by:
2LKDEADLOCKTHR Thread "server.startup : 1" (0x0000000001DDC800)
NULL
{code}
The stacktrace of these 2 threads as indicated by the javacore file:
{code}
3XMTHREADINFO "FelixStartLevel" J9VMThread:0x0000000002156100,
j9thread_t:0x00007FFFC938B4B0, java/lang/Thread:0x0000000101580260, state:B,
prio=5
3XMJAVALTHREAD (java/lang/Thread getId:0x70, isDaemon:true)
3XMTHREADINFO1 (native thread ID:0x5D3A, native priority:0x5, native
policy:UNKNOWN)
3XMTHREADINFO2 (native stack address range from:0x00007FFFC530A000,
to:0x00007FFFC534B000, size:0x41000)
3XMTHREADINFO3 Java callstack:
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/base/internal/service/HttpServiceImpl.unregisterFilter(HttpServiceImpl.java:140)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/base/internal/service/HttpServiceImpl.unregisterFilter(HttpServiceImpl.java:76)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/manager/FilterMapping.unregister(FilterMapping.java:90)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/manager/FilterMapping.unregister(FilterMapping.java:83)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/manager/ExtenderManager.unregisterMapping(ExtenderManager.java:270)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/manager/ExtenderManager.removeMapping(ExtenderManager.java:252)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/manager/ExtenderManager.remove(ExtenderManager.java:183)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/tracker/FilterTracker.removed(FilterTracker.java:48)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/tracker/FilterTracker.removed(FilterTracker.java:24)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/tracker/AbstractTracker.removedService(AbstractTracker.java:52)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerRemoved(ServiceTracker.java:956)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerRemoved(ServiceTracker.java:864)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.untrack(AbstractTracked.java:341(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.serviceChanged(ServiceTracker.java:902(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.invokeServiceListenerCallback(EventDispatcher.java:932(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireEventImmediately(EventDispatcher.java:793(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireServiceEvent(EventDispatcher.java:543(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.fireServiceEvent(Felix.java:4401(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.access$000(Felix.java:74(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix$1.serviceChanged(Felix.java:390(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/ServiceRegistry.unregisterService(ServiceRegistry.java:151(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/ServiceRegistrationImpl.unregister(ServiceRegistrationImpl.java:127(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/manager/AbstractComponentManager.unregisterComponentService(AbstractComponentManager.java:702(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/manager/AbstractComponentManager$State.doDeactivate(AbstractComponentManager.java:1301(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/manager/AbstractComponentManager$Satisfied.dispose(AbstractComponentManager.java:1617)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/manager/AbstractComponentManager.disposeInternal(AbstractComponentManager.java:574(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/manager/AbstractComponentManager.dispose(AbstractComponentManager.java:404(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/config/ImmediateComponentHolder.disposeComponents(ImmediateComponentHolder.java:371(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/BundleComponentActivator.dispose(BundleComponentActivator.java:320(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/Activator.disposeComponents(Activator.java:316)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/scr/impl/Activator.bundleChanged(Activator.java:183(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.invokeBundleListenerCallback(EventDispatcher.java:868(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireEventImmediately(EventDispatcher.java:789(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireBundleEvent(EventDispatcher.java:514(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.fireBundleEvent(Felix.java:4385(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.stopBundle(Felix.java:2508)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.setActiveStartLevel(Felix.java:1297(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/FrameworkStartLevelImpl.run(FrameworkStartLevelImpl.java:304)
4XESTACKTRACE at java/lang/Thread.run(Thread.java:761)
{code}
{code}
3XMTHREADINFO "server.startup : 1" J9VMThread:0x0000000001DDC800,
j9thread_t:0x00007FFFC8C61340, java/lang/Thread:0x00000001014B35A8, state:B,
prio=5
3XMJAVALTHREAD (java/lang/Thread getId:0x68, isDaemon:true)
3XMTHREADINFO1 (native thread ID:0x5A08, native priority:0x5, native
policy:UNKNOWN)
3XMTHREADINFO2 (native stack address range from:0x00007FFFC64D4000,
to:0x00007FFFC6515000, size:0x41000)
3XMTHREADINFO3 Java callstack:
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/manager/ExtenderManager.remove(ExtenderManager.java:183)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/tracker/ServletTracker.removed(ServletTracker.java:48)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/tracker/ServletTracker.removed(ServletTracker.java:24)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/whiteboard/internal/tracker/AbstractTracker.removedService(AbstractTracker.java:52)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerRemoved(ServiceTracker.java:956)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerRemoved(ServiceTracker.java:864)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.untrack(AbstractTracked.java:341(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.serviceChanged(ServiceTracker.java:902(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.invokeServiceLi
stenerCallback(EventDispatcher.java:932(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireEventImmediately(EventDispatcher.java:793(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireServiceEvent(EventDispatcher.java:543(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.fireServiceEvent(Felix.java:4401(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.access$000(Felix.java:74(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix$1.serviceChanged(Felix.java:390(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/ServiceRegistry.unregisterService(ServiceRegistry.java:151(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/ServiceRegistrationImpl.unregister(ServiceRegistrationImpl.java:127(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/inventory/impl/InventoryPrinterAdapter.unregisterConsole(InventoryPrinterAdapter.java:84)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/inventory/impl/InventoryPrinterManagerImpl.addService(InventoryPrinterManagerImpl.java:196)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/inventory/impl/InventoryPrinterManagerImpl.addingService(InventoryPrinterManagerImpl.java:128)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerAdding(ServiceTracker.java:932(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerAdding(ServiceTracker.java:864(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.trackAdding(AbstractTracked.java:256(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.track(AbstractTracked.java:229(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.serviceChanged(ServiceTracker.java:894(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.invokeServiceListenerCallback(EventDispatcher.java:932(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireEventImmediately(EventDispatcher.java:793(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireServiceEvent(EventDispatcher.java:543(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.fireServiceEvent(Felix.java:4401(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.registerService(Felix.java:3411(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/BundleContextImpl.registerService(BundleContextImpl.java:346(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/BundleContextImpl.registerService(BundleContextImpl.java:320)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/inventory/impl/webconsole/WebConsoleAdapter.add(WebConsoleAdapter.java:125)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/inventory/impl/webconsole/WebConsoleAdapter.addingService(WebConsoleAdapter.java:155)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerAdding(ServiceTracker.java:932(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerAdding(ServiceTracker.java:864(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.trackAdding(AbstractTracked.java:256(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.track(AbstractTracked.java:229(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.serviceChanged(ServiceTracker.java:894(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.invokeServiceListenerCallback(EventDispatcher.java:932(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireEventImmediately(EventDispatcher.java:793(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireServiceEvent(EventDispatcher.java:543(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.fireServiceEvent(Felix.java:4401(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.registerService(Felix.java:3411(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/BundleContextImpl.registerService(BundleContextImpl.java:346(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/BundleContextImpl.registerService(BundleContextImpl.java:320)
4XESTACKTRACE at
de/xxx/yyy/modules/common/servlet/dispatcher/jsp/JspTldLocationsCache.<init>(JspTldLocationsCache.java:81)
4XESTACKTRACE at
de/xxx/yyy/modules/common/servlet/dispatcher/jsp/engine/JspScriptEngineFactory.activate(JspScriptEngineFactory.java:235)
4XESTACKTRACE at
de/xxx/yyy/modules/common/servlet/ContainerServlet.init(ContainerServlet.java:96)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/base/internal/handler/ServletHandler.init(ServletHandler.java:55)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/base/internal/handler/HandlerRegistry.addServlet(HandlerRegistry.java:65)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/base/internal/service/HttpServiceImpl.registerServlet(HttpServiceImpl.java:95)
4XESTACKTRACE at
de/xxx/yyy/modules/common/osgi/webapp/WebappModuleServiceTracker.addingService(WebappModuleServiceTracker.java:82)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerAdding(ServiceTracker.java:932(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerAdding(ServiceTracker.java:864(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.trackAdding(AbstractTracked.java:256(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.track(AbstractTracked.java:229(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.serviceChanged(ServiceTracker.java:894(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.invokeServiceListenerCallback(EventDispatcher.java:932(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireEventImmediately(EventDispatcher.java:793(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/util/EventDispatcher.fireServiceEvent(EventDispatcher.java:543(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.fireServiceEvent(Felix.java:4401(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/Felix.registerService(Felix.java:3411(Compiled Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/framework/BundleContextImpl.registerService(BundleContextImpl.java:346(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/base/internal/HttpServiceController.register(HttpServiceController.java:135)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/base/internal/DispatcherServlet.init(DispatcherServlet.java:48)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/proxy/DispatcherTracker.initDispatcher(DispatcherTracker.java:97)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/proxy/DispatcherTracker.setDispatcher(DispatcherTracker.java:77)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/proxy/DispatcherTracker.addingService(DispatcherTracker.java:52)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerAdding(ServiceTracker.java:932)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker$Tracked.customizerAdding(ServiceTracker.java:864)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.trackAdding(AbstractTracked.java:256(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/AbstractTracked.trackInitial(AbstractTracked.java:183(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker.open(ServiceTracker.java:317)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/osgi/util/tracker/ServiceTracker.open(ServiceTracker.java:261)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/proxy/ProxyServlet.doInit(ProxyServlet.java:51)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/felix/http/proxy/ProxyServlet.init(ProxyServlet.java:39)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/sling/launchpad/base/webapp/SlingServletDelegate.init(SlingServletDelegate.java:208)
4XESTACKTRACE at
javax/servlet/GenericServlet.init(GenericServlet.java:241)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/sling/launchpad/webapp/SlingServlet.startSling(SlingServlet.java:384)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/sling/launchpad/webapp/SlingServlet.startSling(SlingServlet.java:325)
4XESTACKTRACE at
org/apache/sling/launchpad/webapp/SlingServlet.init(SlingServlet.java:118)
4XESTACKTRACE at
javax/servlet/GenericServlet.init(GenericServlet.java:241)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/servlet/ServletWrapper.init(ServletWrapper.java:363)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/servlet/ServletWrapperImpl.init(ServletWrapperImpl.java:171)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/servlet/ServletWrapper.initialize(ServletWrapper.java:1844)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/wsspi/webcontainer/extension/WebExtensionProcessor.createServletWrapper(WebExtensionProcessor.java:98)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/webapp/WebApp.getServletWrapper(WebApp.java:1048(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/webapp/WebApp.getServletWrapper(WebApp.java:969)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/webapp/WebApp.initializeTargetMappings(WebApp.java:648(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/webapp/WebApp.commonInitializationFinally(WebApp.java:450)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/webapp/WebAppImpl.initialize(WebAppImpl.java:304(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/webapp/WebGroupImpl.addWebApplication(WebGroupImpl.java:100)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/VirtualHostImpl.addWebApplication(VirtualHostImpl.java:166)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/WSWebContainer.addWebApp(WSWebContainer.java:732)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/WSWebContainer.addWebApplication(WSWebContainer.java:617)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/component/WebContainerImpl.install(WebContainerImpl.java:376)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/webcontainer/component/WebContainerImpl.start(WebContainerImpl.java:668)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/ApplicationMgrImpl.start(ApplicationMgrImpl.java:1128(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/DeployedApplicationImpl.fireDeployedObjectStart(DeployedApplicationImpl.java:1319)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/DeployedModuleImpl.start(DeployedModuleImpl.java:611(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/DeployedApplicationImpl.start(DeployedApplicationImpl.java:944(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/ApplicationMgrImpl.startApplication(ApplicationMgrImpl.java:741(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/ApplicationMgrImpl$3.run(ApplicationMgrImpl.java:2056)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/security/auth/ContextManagerImpl.runAs(ContextManagerImpl.java:5395)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/security/auth/ContextManagerImpl.runAsSystem(ContextManagerImpl.java:5483)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/security/core/SecurityContext.runAsSystem(SecurityContext.java:255)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/ApplicationMgrImpl.start(ApplicationMgrImpl.java:2061)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/CompositionUnitMgrImpl.start(CompositionUnitMgrImpl.java:389(Compiled
Code))
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/CompositionUnitImpl.start(CompositionUnitImpl.java:123)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/CompositionUnitMgrImpl.start(CompositionUnitMgrImpl.java:332)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/CompositionUnitMgrImpl.access$300(CompositionUnitMgrImpl.java:117)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/runtime/component/CompositionUnitMgrImpl$CUInitializer.run(CompositionUnitMgrImpl.java:899)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/wsspi/runtime/component/WsComponentImpl$_AsynchInitializer.run(WsComponentImpl.java:496)
4XESTACKTRACE at
com/ibm/ws/util/ThreadPool$Worker.run(ThreadPool.java:1656(Compiled Code))
{code}
We run into this quite often, so it's kind of reproducible.
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