I agree with Guillaume that the way the specs are defined is not fully compatible to the way apache projects are managed. In apache the idea is that the design of a component is defined by the community.

Like in jax-rs-whiteboard .. if it was a pure apache thing then changes in the interfaces would be proposed on the dev list and agreed on there. As the interfaces are part of the spec this is out of direct reach for the aries community.

On the other hand I understand that the final decision about the spec has to be at the OSGi alliance and even that only members may decide.
So I think this gap can not be fully solved but maybe we can improve it.

So what I could imagine is this:

- Changes on the spec should be immediately visible to the apache community. This could be done using a github repo where the source of the spec resides and an automated snapshot build. So all changes could be followed directly and the newest spec jars would always be available.
- Protocols of the expert group meetings could be posted to the dev list

Both improvements would shorten the feedback loop and give the apache community at least more visibility of the spec progress. The community could then also directly give feedback to the protocols as well as api changes on the dev list. So this would of course still not allow the apache community to drive the spec but I think it would be a good compromise.

Christian

On 18.01.2017 11:59, David Bosschaert wrote:
Hi Guillaume,

First of all, the OSGi Alliance is a very open standards development
organization. Any organisation can join. RFPs and RFCs are developed in the
open, specs are available for free and are free to be implemented by anyone.

There is also an open feedback channel available where everyone can post
feedback, described at https://github.com/osgi/design

OSGi works very hard in defining specs that are portable and can be
implemented without the need to pay for any licenses or anything of that
sort.

History has shown that spec implementations are really quite portable.
Implementation bundles can be mixed from different sources and everything
just works as long as you use the specced APIs.

Every new spec that is being worked on in OSGi needs, besides the RFP/RFC
and spec chapter, a Reference Implementation and a Conformance Testsuite.
Over the past 10 years or so, Reference Implementations have primarily been
implemented in open source. This has the benefit that everyone can see what
the implementation is going to be and also it allows everyone to provide
feedback and participate in the implementation. Apache committers have free
access to the relevant CTs as well.

I think this is all goodness. Or would you rather see that Reference
Implementations are implemented in private?

Best regards,

David


On 18 January 2017 at 10:41, Guillaume Nodet <gno...@apache.org> wrote:

I'm a bit concerned by some subprojects in our communities.

The ASF is supposed to be "community over code", so the very basic thing
for a project is that people can get involved.

However, I see more and more code developped as a reference implementation
of a spec which is not publicly available, because it's still being
developed at the OSGi Alliance.  I find that very disturbing because
there's no way the community can get involved unless they are OSGi Alliance
members, and that's clearly not acceptable imho.

Thoughts ?
Guillaume Nodet



--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de

Open Source Architect
http://www.talend.com

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