Avik I certainly have no intention of stopping conversations or limiting where they occur, but the PMC is responsible for making the open source project “open”.
The phrase “if it didn’t happen on list it didn’t happen” isn’t mine - it’s been a given for ASF projects and it just means what Alex mentioned… summarize and link. If you don’t think it’s important then don’t. If you do, then “bring it back” via a summary. What is meant is that if you use a private conversation mode then it’s your responsibility to bring that back to the project in some way. Apache is supportive of slack and discussion can happen on Apache slack #fineract https://join.slack.com/t/the-asf/shared_invite/zt-2mq5iqedd-BAfZyVyP53jlJsOdF3QiAg Apache maintains the infrastructure or accounts of Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub and the listserv. All releases still go through SVN as well. The longevity of the record of a project is important. Thanks James On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 5:34 PM Avik Ganguly <a...@fynarfin.io> wrote: > Hi folks, James, > > it is important for those conducting such off list discussions to bring >> them back to on list > > I have seen the same thing mentioned in The Apache Way > <https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/> but that's more in line with > preventing private discussions rather than public discussions in non-email > based communication platforms. Can you point me to an Apache > discussion/documentation which explores why it's important or why the > on-list definition cannot be expanded? > > There are also these line in *The Apache Way* > >> There is no "one way" to The Apache Way. The ASF is not dictatorial and >> will never compel a rigid path to implement our process, as we believe >> flexibility is integral to The Apache Way to Sustainable Open Source >> Success. > > The Apache Way is a living, breathing interpretation of one’s experience >> with our community-led development process. > > > A lot of people I know see email as an inappropriate channel for short > form communication / content. In Open Source, the time it would take to > change behaviour of new members is very long especially if there is no > agreement. If that discussion is done on the JIRA ticket instead of Slack, > do you consider the problem as solved or unresolved? Is the issue with open > source friendliness of Slack? Is Confluence off-list as well? > > Would you like to share some thoughts on the kind of issues you have > observed where discussions have moved off list (and off JIRA, Confluence & > Github)? I have noticed design documents as one category where the drafts > and review comments are done in Google Docs or Notion or OneNote and later > moved to Confluence (which also prevents more formalization of design > review guidelines). Another problem could be that Confluence or Gitbook or > other tools might have free licenses for NGOs but not for commercial open > source orgs and members from orgs participating in open source might wish > to align only on those tools which are internally consistent. Ex:- > Confluence is a full fledged team workspace cum knowledge base whereas any > free note taking app is often sufficient for designing. > > Increasing the surface area for moderation is a challenge though. Ex:- If > we are considering JIRA as on-list, is off topic discussion, misinformation > or hateful speech moderated at most Apache JIRAs? Is this more of a > scheduling/moderation assignee problem rather than a principle problem > (with respect to what is a fair method of collaboration)? > > I am sure folks would have many other thoughts in an anonymous survey. > Ex:- What about verbal conversations that happen in online conferencing > tools with consent for the meeting notes being shared publicly? What if the > summary of that discussion is in a publicly shared Google Doc and linked to > a generic meeting ticket in JIRA? What about the lack of emoji support in > free email clients? Are emojis considered unprofessional in this community > 🤐? > > Off topic for this thread and mailing list but I noticed the Mojaloop > community moving away from JIRA. Does anyone have any open source concerns > with using JIRA? > > With best regards, > Avik Ganguly >
