*"The idea that you should have your hands tied by whether or not your marketing collateral can be disseminated in an Apache Release Bundle is simply ludicrous."*
But Terry, Apache decided what way worked best long ago! There's no need for improvements. How could any new ideas or nicely formatted PDF make our workflow better? (sarcasm) In this case the release notes need to be in plain text but it doesn't mean we can't also include a PDF. You can send them to me in the future if need be in plain text or attach them to a Jira issue like Alex said. FYI For those who care. I went back and read the official guidelines on what the Apache way is and it's actually a guideline but the mantra was trumpeted about enough that people on this list think they are locked into this way of working. What it actually says is it's up to the head members how they choose to run it. They can adopt the things that worked and they can improve on it. Here are the official docs<http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html>. I'm including a few relevant quotes here:* The chair of the PMC is appointed by the Board and is an officer of the ASF (Vice President). The chair has primary responsibility to the Board, and has the power to establish rules and procedures for the day to day management of the communities for which the PMC is responsible, including the composition of the PMC itself. * ... *In order to reduce friction and allow for diversity to emerge, rather than forcing a monoculture from the top, the projects are designated the central decision-making organizations of the Apache world. Each project is delegated authority over development of its software, and is given a great deal of latitude in designing its own technical charter and its own governing rules.** * ... *The Apache projects are managed using a collaborative, consensus-based process. We do not have a hierarchical structure. Rather, different groups of contributors have different rights and responsibilities in the organization. * *Since the appointed Project Management Committees have the power to create their own self-governing rules, there is no single vision on how PMCs should run a project and the communities they host.* I'm not an expert on it but there are a few possibly contradictory statements. The main one that has caused major grief for me is, "We do not have a hierarchical structure" which it obviously does. The PMC, the chair, members, volunteers and so on. Anyway, this leads to, "Scratch your own itch" and opposition to forming any type of organization or describing any type of vision or road map. This isn't back to the future yet. Where we're going we still do need roads. :) However, it reiterates, multiple times, "there is not single vision on how a project should be run" and "each is delegated authority over development of it's software, technical charter and governing rules." Anyway, I'm upset that something this simple was made so difficult. I'm ranting. Thank you for your contribution. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Terry Corbet <terry.cor...@gmail.com>wrote: > Yes, I am well aware of the strictures which affect the way you use the > facilities of the Apache Software Foundation to further the cause of > producing a very useful set of software upon which thousands of us rely. I > only tried to respond in this forum to a request for updates to your > existing release documentation, and I understand that this is not the > forum, nor the group of persons very much interested in the fact that > Apache Flex is a product. > > As with any product it competes in a marketplace. As with any such > competition, generally those who do the most professional job of promoting > their product achieve good success in gaining market share. The folks who > labor in the product management business generally try to use the best > possible communications tools for achieving their results. > > If product marketing is limited by using as your primary face to the world > a web presence maintained in the org.apache domain space, which I really > doubt, then the community ought to consider hosting its marketing presence > at other locations which do not prevent using the best possible, > multi-media, interactive tools to present their case. > > The idea that you should have your hands tied by whether or not your > marketing collateral can be disseminated in an Apache Release Bundle is > simply ludicrous. As to whether or not, in terms of being able to > cooperatively author content it is desirable that tools be readily > available to as many as who can participate, my choice of using LibreOffice > and choosing the open PDF format was not an incidental after-thought. > > I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time. > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 1:47 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala > <bigosma...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > Just to be clear, we do accept documents in PDF form, we just wont be > able > > to put it in the release. As Alex mentioned, you can attach your > original > > PDF to a JIRA ticket and that would come through perfectly fine. Also, > we > > can drop the PDF file on the website and link to it from our release > notes. > > > > > > As to why we cannot include the PDF in the release, the answer must be > > obvious to you by now. It is technically a binary file (just like a > > Microsoft Word .docx file would be) You need a special tool to open it, > > edit it, etc. Even you could not easily extract just the text portion > from > > it - and you were the author! It is not reasonable to expect others will > > be able to do it without downloading special tools. > > > > The criteria is simple, if you cannot open a file in Notepad and edit it, > > then you have a problem. > > > > Thanks, > > Om > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Terry Corbet <terry.cor...@gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > It was instructive when your new marketing guru arrived and the first > > > message was "I write press releases, I don't do CSS and HTML." I > > > understand where he is coming from, so I think there is a bigger issue > by > > > which the team's interpretation of "The Apache Way" as implying some > > sort > > > of Least Common Denominator approach has clearly been > counter-productive > > to > > > your efforts. > > > > > > You guys don't really want to know that when we needed human > input/output > > > for our first computers we borrowed the esteemed Model 33 Teletype from > > the > > > communications industry, so somewhere back in the fifties I still know > > > about 5-bit Baudot code that required us to insert Shift characters > into > > > lines of text so that the renderer would correctly understand whether > we > > > meant upper case or lower case letters following. Not supporting > > marketing > > > tools like PDF documents is as absurd as asking me send your 5-bit > text. > > > > > > So, the good news about being so old and so geeky is that I will give > you > > > HTML and CSS if that is the only language you speak, but others will > not. > > > In the hours since rapidly trying to author something that would be > > helpful > > > for 4.10 RC3, I could not raise the folks in Germany, where > FlashDevelop > > is > > > located, but I have now sent them a summary of these threads and > > suggested > > > that they try to establish contact with the Apache Flex community > > directly. > > > > > > I am sorry for and have no idea why you would have any licensing issue > > with > > > them. Their product is as free and as freely available as anyone's > > > definition of that term as been since Richard introduced it in the > > > eighties. Please post to Phillippe, he is very responsive to the > > hundreds > > > of technical and non-technical postings he makes daily. > > > > > > My direct email is tcorbet DOT ix DOT netcom DOT com; please give me > one > > > that I can use to send you attachments not supported by this > > > communication's vehicle. I will see about converting the current > > document > > > to your preferred format, but, as I said, since the window is probably > > > closed for this release, I hope you will get a much better document > from > > > the folks at FlashDevelop. > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 5:57 AM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski < > nicho...@spoon.as > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Terry, > > > > > > > > It would be great if you could write up some instructions like we've > > done > > > > for the other IDEs, to match > > http://flex.apache.org/doc-getstarted.html. > > > > My hope is to expand this tutorial one day, but my time has been > split > > > > with other projects... I don't have much experience with > FlashDevelop, > > > but > > > > some licensing and installation disagreements between me and their > > > website > > > > haven't allowed me to explore it as much as I probably should. > > > > > > > > -Nick > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Terry Corbet < > terry.cor...@gmail.com > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > I know, by reading your postings 24x7, that you never sleep > > > 'downunder', > > > > > but the FlashDevelp folks are in Europe. So, I'll make this > promise > > in > > > > San > > > > > Jose time, that I will provide instructions for FlashDevelop if I > > > cannot > > > > > get the owners of that software to do it directly by copying them > on > > > this > > > > > thread when the sun comes up over there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Justin Mclean < > > > jus...@classsoftware.com > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > HI, > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned by others FlashDevelop not only automatically > > fetches > > > > the > > > > > > Adobe 23201B build for you > > > > > > Can you suggest some text that expands on "When using Flash > develop > > > > there > > > > > > no need to package the SDK as handles that for you"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps a good idea would be to provide installation > > > > > > instructions/steps/screen cams for each of the major IDEs on the > > > Apache > > > > > > Flex websIte. Would anyone be interested in helping up with this? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
