Jesse, The one thing that really terrifies me is that potential contributors like you stay away from the project for reasons like these. I hope we did not make a terrible first impression and that you would stick to us and see where we all land up. Hopefully in a good place :-)
Thanks, Om On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Jesse Nicholson <ascensionsyst...@gmail.com > wrote: > Hi Om, > > Thanks for letting me know that IBM is controlling flex. Lol, kidding :) > > Thanks for the very detailed response. It seems I missed some information > on the site and will have to review. I suppose its just a general mistrust > of adobe. No offence to anyone. Yes adobe open sourced it, that's great. > Its also the shiny side of the coin. > > I don't want to rehash history, I'll just say 2 things. I was a flash dev > for years very heavily invested both financially and time wise. Second, we > all remember the emergency soothing of fears press conference after the > donation announcement to appease customers like my former employer with > countless man hours and millions of dollars invested in to flash/flex. Your > base product here is written in the language that will draw in people who > experienced the non-shiny side, hence the potential > jump-to-negative-conclusions like you've seen here from me. :) > > Thanks for clarifying I do appreciate it. I'll definitely stick around to > try and get to know what flex is today, who is behind it today, and what > its going to be tomorrow. > On 5 Dec 2014 13:33, "OmPrakash Muppirala" <bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Jesse, > > > > You are indeed raising very valid questions. I am moving this to a > > separate thread so we don't continue to pollute that other vote thread. > > > > The question you are raising is something that we have assumed to have > been > > answered and put to rest. So, I will try to respond to it from your > > perspective who may not have been following this project closely. > > Responses inline: > > > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Jesse Nicholson < > > ascensionsyst...@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > > I'll stop emailing on this thread, my apologize to people for the > > unrelated > > > messages that have come through. > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Jesse Nicholson < > > > ascensionsyst...@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > My intention wasn't to hurt anyone. As a grown up, I'm open to > > > > conversations where subject matter isn't all sunshine and lolipops > > > without > > > > taking it personally. :) I was just giving my first impressions, > which > > I > > > > think were legitimate since 90% of the messages coming in so far was > > > > arguing over the release process and the release manager heralding > the > > > end > > > > of the universe if we all carry on against his advice. > > > > > > > > Anyway yes I do have genuine concerns about corporate independence. > > Your > > > > profile says that you work for Adobe, right? I don't see how that in > > > itself > > > > doesn't wrap up "corporate independence" neatly and throw it out the > > > window > > > > and down the mountain side, with respect. > > > > > > > Almost every volunteer at Apache works for a corporate entity in their > > 'real' life. How else are the volunteers going to make money? You are > > jumping from being employed with company A to company A having corporate > > influence over an open source project. > > > > True, there are 'open source' entities that are completely controlled by > > corporations. Ex. Joyent - Node.js, Google - Chromium/AngularJS, etc., > > Apple - Webkit, etc. But Apache projects are all controlled by the > Apache > > Software Foundation, which is an entity on its own. There is no evidence > > that any corporate entity has influence on Apache Flex. Yes, not even > > Adobe. > > > > > > > > > The only target (until a mature > > > > flex-js) is a closed source platform owned by your employer. > > > > > > > Again, this is not unique to Apache Flex. There are numerous (Apache and > > non-Apache) open source projects that depend on the Java(TM) runtime > which > > is tightly controlled by Oracle Corporation. Same goes with projects > like > > Node.js which depends on the V8 engine, again tightly controlled by > Google. > > > > > > > > > But even then, > > > > the only complete toolset for authoring against this framework is > owned > > > and > > > > marketed as a commercial product by your employer. > > > > > > > I think you are talking about Adobe Flash Builder. That is not the only > > complete toolset for developing Apache Flex apps. You have Jetbrains > > IntelliJ IDEA, Powerflasher FDT, FlashDevelop, Oracle Netbeans, etc. > which > > support Apache Flex to varying degrees. > > > > > > > The website addresses > > > > this by kindly suggesting to command line everything. > > > > > > > There are several wiki pages that describe how to use Apache Flex various > > different IDEs. They are all summarized on our website, here [1] > > > > > > > Well, we all know > > > > that people who used flex before are stuck with Adobe Flex IDE > > dependent > > > > project files, so yeah. > > > > > > > Not sure what you mean. Please clarify? > > > > > > > Source code headers don't make copyright claims but > > > > rather express that the software is licensed to the apache software > > > > foundation with permission to extend that license (apache license) to > > end > > > > users. > > > > > > > Yes, because the software was originally developed by Adobe. Nothing we > do > > today can change that fact. The fact that Adobe (graciously) gave away > > their software to us does not mean that they give up the right to use it > to > > develop anything else in the future. The same would be true for you and > > me. If you develop a software and make it open source, you are not > > necessarily giving away your ownership of the software. You are only > > making it infinitely easy for others to take your work and use/improve > it. > > > > > > > So yes sir, I have genuine, real questions about how on earth apache > > > > could possibly be running this project independent of adobe systems > > > > incorporated given everything I've mentioned above. > > > > > > > I hope the above answers should alleviate your concerns. If not, please > > ask more questions. Corporate independence is a very important aspect of > > Apache Flex (insert any other project here) and we want to make sure that > > everyone understands this. > > > > Thanks, > > Om > > > > P.S. I work for IBM and not Adobe :-) > > > > [1] http://flex.apache.org/doc-getstarted.html > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. :) > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz < > > > > bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Jesse Nicholson > > > >> <ascensionsyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > ...many of the leads here seem to double as adobe > > > >> > employees... which makes me feel that this is still very heavily > > > >> controlled > > > >> > and owned by adobe for their own corporate interests.... > > > >> > > > >> I suppose you did not realize how that kind of statement is received > > > >> by people who spend lots of energy to run this foundation in a way > > > >> that keeps our projects independent from corporate influences, as > well > > > >> as by people who take great care of contributing to these projects > in > > > >> a way that implements this independence. > > > >> > > > >> As someone who's active on all sides of this, I am doubly hurt ;-) > > > >> > > > >> But of course if you have actual concerns about corporate > > > >> independence, feel free to report them to this PMC or to a trusted > > > >> Apache Foundation Member or Director. > > > >> > > > >> Anyway...welcome! And I'd recommend that you stay around for a bit > > > >> longer. IMO this project is currently in a crisis but there's > positive > > > >> signs in the last few days that the atmosphere should get much > better > > > >> soon! > > > >> > > > >> -Bertrand > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jesse Nicholson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Jesse Nicholson > > > > > >
