Hi Steven, I think the current proposal is what you mentioned - a Kafka source that can be constructed in either BOUNDED or UNBOUNDED mode. And Flink can get the boundedness by invoking getBoundedness().
So one can create a Kafka source by doing something like the following: new KafkaSource().startOffset(),endOffset(); // A bounded instance. new KafkaSource().startOffset(); // An unbounded instance. If users want to have an UNBOUNDED Kafka source that stops at some point. They can wrap the BOUNDED Kafka source like below: SourceUtils.asUnbounded(new KafkaSource.startOffset().endOffset()); The wrapped source would be an unbounded Kafka source that stops at the end offset. Does that make sense? Thanks, Jiangjie (Becket) Qin On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 1:31 PM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > First of all, I think it is not called "UNBOUNDED", according to the > FLIP-27, it is called "CONTINUOUS_UNBOUNDED". > And from the description of the Boundedness in the FLIP-27[1] declares > clearly what Becket and I think. > > public enum Boundedness { > > /** > * A bounded source processes the data that is currently available and > will end after that. > * > * <p>When a source produces a bounded stream, the runtime may activate > additional optimizations > * that are suitable only for bounded input. Incorrectly producing > unbounded data when the source > * is set to produce a bounded stream will often result in programs > that do not output any results > * and may eventually fail due to runtime errors (out of memory or > storage). > */ > BOUNDED, > > /** > * A continuous unbounded source continuously processes all data as it > comes. > * > * <p>The source may run forever (until the program is terminated) or > might actually end at some point, > * based on some source-specific conditions. Because that is not > transparent to the runtime, > * the runtime will use an execution mode for continuous unbounded > streams whenever this mode > * is chosen. > */ > CONTINUOUS_UNBOUNDED > } > > Best, > Jark > > [1]: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-27%3A+Refactor+Source+Interface#FLIP-27:RefactorSourceInterface-Source > > > > On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 12:55, Steven Wu <stevenz...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Becket, > > > > Regarding "UNBOUNDED source that stops at some point", I found it > difficult > > to grasp what UNBOUNDED really mean. > > > > If we want to use Kafka source with an end/stop time, I guess you call it > > UNBOUNDED kafka source that stops (aka BOUNDED-streaming). The > > terminology is a little confusing to me. Maybe BOUNDED/UNBOUNDED > shouldn't > > be used to categorize source. Just call it Kafka source and it can run in > > either BOUNDED or UNBOUNDED mode. > > > > Thanks, > > Steven > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:02 PM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I had an offline chat with Jark, and here are some more thoughts: > > > > > > 1. From SQL perspective, BOUNDED source leads to the batch execution > > mode, > > > UNBOUNDED source leads to the streaming execution mode. > > > 2. The semantic of UNBOUNDED source is may or may not stop. The > semantic > > of > > > BOUNDED source is will stop. > > > 3. The semantic of DataStream is may or may not terminate. The semantic > > of > > > BoundedDataStream is will terminate. > > > > > > Given that, option 3 seems a better option because: > > > 1. SQL already has strict binding between Boundedness and execution > mode. > > > Letting DataStream be consistent would be good. > > > 2. The semantic of UNBOUNDED source is exactly the same as DataStream. > So > > > we should avoid breaking such semantic, i.e. turning some DataStream > from > > > "may or may not terminate" to "will terminate". > > > > > > For case where users want BOUNDED-streaming combination, they can > simply > > > use an UNBOUNDED source that stops at some point. We can even provide a > > > simple wrapper to wrap a BOUNDED source as an UNBOUNDED source if that > > > helps. But API wise, option 3 seems telling a pretty good whole story. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:30 PM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Timo, > > > > > > > > Bounded is just a special case of unbounded and every bounded source > > can > > > >> also be treated as an unbounded source. This would unify the API if > > > >> people don't need a bounded operation. > > > > > > > > > > > > With option 3 users can still get a unified API with something like > > > below: > > > > > > > > DataStream boundedStream = env.boundedSource(boundedSource); > > > > DataStream unboundedStream = env.source(unboundedSource); > > > > > > > > So in both cases, users can still use a unified DataStream without > > > > touching the bounded stream only methods. > > > > By "unify the API if people don't need the bounded operation". Do you > > > > expect a DataStream with a Bounded source to have the batch operators > > and > > > > scheduler settings as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > If we allow DataStream from BOUNDED source, we will essentially pick > > > "*modified > > > > option 2*". > > > > > > > > // The source is either bounded or unbounded, but only unbounded > > > >> operations could be performed on the returned DataStream. > > > >> DataStream<Type> dataStream = env.source(someSource); > > > > > > > > > > > >> // The source must be a bounded source, otherwise exception is > thrown. > > > >> BoundedDataStream<Type> boundedDataStream = > > > >> env.boundedSource(boundedSource); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > // Add the following method to DataStream > > > > > > > > Boundedness DataStream#getBoundedness(); > > > > > > > > > > > > From pure logical perspective, Boundedness and runtime settings > > > > (Stream/Batch) are two orthogonal dimensions. And are specified in > the > > > > following way. > > > > > > > > *Boundedness* - defined by the source: BOUNDED / UNBOUNDED. > > > > *Running mode* - defined by the API class: DataStream (Streaming > mode) > > / > > > > BoundedDataStream (batch mode). > > > > > > > > Excluding the UNBOUNDED-batch combination, the "*modified option 2"* > > > > covers the rest three combination. Compared with "*modified option > 2*", > > > > the main benefit of option 3 is its simplicity and clearness, by > tying > > > > boundedness to running mode and giving up BOUNDED-streaming > > combination. > > > > > > > > Just to be clear, I am fine with either option. But I would like to > > > > understand a bit more about the bounded-streaming use case and when > > users > > > > would prefer this over bounded-batch case, and whether the added > value > > > > justifies the additional complexity in the API. Two cases I can think > > of > > > > are: > > > > 1. The records in DataStream will be processed in order, while > > > > BoundedDataStream processes records without order guarantee. > > > > 2. DataStream emits intermediate results when processing a finite > > > dataset, > > > > while BoundedDataStream only emit the final result. In any case, it > > could > > > > be supported by an UNBOUNDED source stopping at some point. > > > > > > > > Case 1 is actually misleading because DataStream in general doesn't > > > really > > > > support in-order process. > > > > Case 2 seems a rare use case because the instantaneous intermediate > > > result > > > > seems difficult to reason about. In any case, this can be supported > by > > an > > > > UNBOUNDED source that stops at some point. > > > > > > > > Is there other use cases for bounded-streaming combination I missed? > I > > am > > > > a little hesitating to put the testing requirement here because > ideally > > > I'd > > > > avoid having public APIs for testing purpose only. And this could be > > > > resolved by having a UNBOUNDED source stopping at some point as well. > > > > > > > > Sorry for the long discussion, but I would really like to make an API > > > > decision after knowing all the pros and cons. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 6:19 PM Timo Walther <twal...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi Becket, > > > >> > > > >> regarding *Option 3* I think we can relax the constraints for > > > >> env.source(): > > > >> > > > >> // MySource can be bounded or unbounded > > > >> DataStream<Type> dataStream = env.source(mySource); > > > >> > > > >> // MySource must be bounded, otherwise throws exception. > > > >> BoundedDataStream<Type> boundedDataStream = > > env.boundedSource(mySource); > > > >> > > > >> Bounded is just a special case of unbounded and every bounded source > > can > > > >> also be treated as an unbounded source. This would unify the API if > > > >> people don't need a bounded operation. It also addresses Jark's > > > concerns. > > > >> > > > >> Regards, > > > >> Timo > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 18.12.19 14:16, Becket Qin wrote: > > > >> > Hi Jark, > > > >> > > > > >> > Please see the reply below: > > > >> > > > > >> > Regarding to option#3, my concern is that if we don't support > > > streaming > > > >> >> mode for bounded source, > > > >> >> how could we create a testing source for streaming mode? > Currently, > > > >> all the > > > >> >> testing source for streaming > > > >> >> are bounded, so that the integration test will finish finally. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > An UNBOUNDED source does not mean it will never stops. It simply > > > >> indicates > > > >> > that the source *may* run forever, so the runtime needs to be > > prepared > > > >> for > > > >> > that, but the task may still stop at some point when it hits some > > > >> > source-specific condition. So an UNBOUNDED testing source can > still > > > >> stop at > > > >> > some point if needed. > > > >> > > > > >> > Regarding to Source#getRecordOrder(), could we have a implicit > > > contract > > > >> >> that unbounded source should > > > >> >> already read in order (i.e. reading partitions in parallel), for > > > >> bounded > > > >> >> source the order is not mandatory. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >> This is also the behaviors of the current sources. > > > >> > > > > >> > 1) a source can't guarantee it reads in strict order, because the > > > >> producer > > > >> >> may produce data not in order. > > > >> >> 2) *Bounded-StrictOrder* is not necessary, because batch can > > reorder > > > >> data. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > It is true that sometimes the source cannot guarantee the record > > > order, > > > >> but > > > >> > sometimes it can. Right now, even for stream processing, there is > no > > > >> > processing order guarantee. For example, a join operator may emit > a > > > >> later > > > >> > record which successfully found a join match earlier. > > > >> > Event order is one of the most important requirements for event > > > >> processing, > > > >> > a clear order guarantee would be necessary. That said, I agree > that > > > >> right > > > >> > now even if the sources provide the record order requirement, the > > > >> runtime > > > >> > is not able to guarantee that out of the box. So I am OK if we add > > the > > > >> > record order to the Source later. But we should avoid misleading > > users > > > >> to > > > >> > make them think the processing order is guaranteed when using the > > > >> unbounded > > > >> > runtime. > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > >> > > > > >> > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > >> > > > > >> > On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 10:29 AM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> Hi Becket, > > > >> >> > > > >> >> That's great we have reached a consensus on > > Source#getBoundedness(). > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Regarding to option#3, my concern is that if we don't support > > > streaming > > > >> >> mode for bounded source, > > > >> >> how could we create a testing source for streaming mode? > Currently, > > > >> all the > > > >> >> testing source for streaming > > > >> >> are bounded, so that the integration test will finish finally. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Regarding to Source#getRecordOrder(), could we have a implicit > > > contract > > > >> >> that unbounded source should > > > >> >> already read in order (i.e. reading partitions in parallel), for > > > >> bounded > > > >> >> source the order is not mandatory. > > > >> >> This is also the behaviors of the current sources. > > > >> >> 1) a source can't guarantee it reads in strict order, because the > > > >> producer > > > >> >> may produce data not in order. > > > >> >> 2) *Bounded-StrictOrder* is not necessary, because batch can > > reorder > > > >> data. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Best, > > > >> >> Jark > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 at 22:03, Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >>> Hi folks, > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Thanks for the comments. I am convinced that the Source API > should > > > not > > > >> >> take > > > >> >>> boundedness as a parameter after it is constructed. What Timo > and > > > >> Dawid > > > >> >>> suggested sounds a reasonable solution to me. So the Source API > > > would > > > >> >>> become: > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Source { > > > >> >>> Boundedness getBoundedness(); > > > >> >>> } > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Assuming the above Source API, in addition to the two options > > > >> mentioned > > > >> >> in > > > >> >>> earlier emails, I am thinking of another option: > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> *Option 3:* > > > >> >>> // MySource must be unbounded, otherwise throws exception. > > > >> >>> DataStream<Type> dataStream = env.source(mySource); > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> // MySource must be bounded, otherwise throws exception. > > > >> >>> BoundedDataStream<Type> boundedDataStream = > > > >> env.boundedSource(mySource); > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> The pros of this API are: > > > >> >>> a) It fits the requirements from Table / SQL well. > > > >> >>> b) DataStream users still have type safety (option 2 only > has > > > >> partial > > > >> >>> type safety). > > > >> >>> c) Cristal clear boundedness from the API which makes > > DataStream > > > >> join > > > >> >> / > > > >> >>> connect easy to reason about. > > > >> >>> The caveats I see, > > > >> >>> a) It is inconsistent with Table since Table has one unified > > > >> >> interface. > > > >> >>> b) No streaming mode for bounded source. > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> @Stephan Ewen <ewenstep...@gmail.com> @Aljoscha Krettek > > > >> >>> <aljos...@ververica.com> what do you think of the approach? > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Orthogonal to the above API, I am wondering whether boundedness > is > > > the > > > >> >> only > > > >> >>> dimension needed to describe the characteristic of the Source > > > >> behavior. > > > >> >> We > > > >> >>> may also need to have another dimension of *record order*. > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> For example, when a file source is reading from a directory with > > > >> bounded > > > >> >>> records, it may have two ways to read. > > > >> >>> 1. Read files in parallel. > > > >> >>> 2. Read files in the chronological order. > > > >> >>> In both cases, the file source is a Bounded Source. However, the > > > >> >> processing > > > >> >>> requirement for downstream may be different. In the first case, > > the > > > >> >>> record processing and result emitting order does not matter, > e.g. > > > word > > > >> >>> count. In the second case, the records may have to be processed > in > > > the > > > >> >>> order they were read, e.g. change log processing. > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> If the Source only has a getBoundedness() method, the downstream > > > >> >> processors > > > >> >>> would not know whether the records emitted from the Source > should > > be > > > >> >>> processed in order or not. So combining the boundedness and > record > > > >> order, > > > >> >>> we will have four scenarios: > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> *Bounded-StrictOrder*: A segment of change log. > > > >> >>> *Bounded-Random*: Batch Word Count. > > > >> >>> *Unbounded-StrictOrder*: An infinite change log. > > > >> >>> *Unbounded-Random*: Streaming Word Count. > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Option 2 mentioned in the previous email was kind of trying to > > > handle > > > >> the > > > >> >>> Bounded-StrictOrder case by creating a DataStream from a bounded > > > >> source, > > > >> >>> which actually does not work. > > > >> >>> It looks that we do not have strict order support in some > > operators > > > at > > > >> >> this > > > >> >>> point, e.g. join. But we may still want to add the semantic to > the > > > >> Source > > > >> >>> first so later on we don't need to change all the source > > > >> implementations, > > > >> >>> especially given that many of them will be implemented by 3rd > > party. > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Given that, we need another dimension of *Record Order* in the > > > Source. > > > >> >> More > > > >> >>> specifically, the API would become: > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Source { > > > >> >>> Boundedness getBoundedness(); > > > >> >>> RecordOrder getRecordOrder(); > > > >> >>> } > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> public enum RecordOrder { > > > >> >>> /** The record in the DataStream must be processed in its > > > strict > > > >> >> order > > > >> >>> for correctness. */ > > > >> >>> STRICT, > > > >> >>> /** The record in the DataStream can be processed in > > arbitrary > > > >> order. > > > >> >>> */ > > > >> >>> RANDOM; > > > >> >>> } > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Any thoughts? > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Thanks, > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 3:44 PM Timo Walther < > twal...@apache.org> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>>> Hi Becket, > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> I completely agree with Dawid's suggestion. The information > about > > > the > > > >> >>>> boundedness should come out of the source. Because most of the > > > >> >> streaming > > > >> >>>> sources can be made bounded based on some connector specific > > > >> criterion. > > > >> >>>> In Kafka, it would be an end offset or end timestamp but in any > > > case > > > >> >>>> having just a env.boundedSource() is not enough because > > parameters > > > >> for > > > >> >>>> making the source bounded are missing. > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> I suggest to have a simple `isBounded(): Boolean` flag in every > > > >> source > > > >> >>>> that might be influenced by a connector builder as Dawid > > mentioned. > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> For type safety during programming, we can still go with *Final > > > state > > > >> >>>> 1*. By having a env.source() vs env.boundedSource(). The latter > > > would > > > >> >>>> just enforce that the boolean flag is set to `true` and could > > make > > > >> >>>> bounded operations available (if we need that actually). > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> However, I don't think that we should start making a unified > > Table > > > >> API > > > >> >>>> ununified again. Boundedness is an optimization property. Every > > > >> bounded > > > >> >>>> operation can also executed in an unbounded way using > > > >> >> updates/retraction > > > >> >>>> or watermarks. > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> Regards, > > > >> >>>> Timo > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> On 15.12.19 14:22, Becket Qin wrote: > > > >> >>>>> Hi Dawid and Jark, > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> I think the discussion ultimately boils down to the question > > that > > > >> >> which > > > >> >>>> one > > > >> >>>>> of the following two final states do we want? Once we make > this > > > >> >>> decision, > > > >> >>>>> everything else can be naturally derived. > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> *Final state 1*: Separate API for bounded / unbounded > > DataStream & > > > >> >>> Table. > > > >> >>>>> That means any code users write will be valid at the point > when > > > they > > > >> >>>> write > > > >> >>>>> the code. This is similar to having type safety check at > > > programming > > > >> >>>> time. > > > >> >>>>> For example, > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> BoundedDataStream extends DataStream { > > > >> >>>>> // Operations only available for bounded data. > > > >> >>>>> BoundedDataStream sort(...); > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> // Interaction with another BoundedStream returns a Bounded > > > stream. > > > >> >>>>> BoundedJoinedDataStream join(BoundedDataStream other) > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> // Interaction with another unbounded stream returns an > > unbounded > > > >> >>> stream. > > > >> >>>>> JoinedDataStream join(DataStream other) > > > >> >>>>> } > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> BoundedTable extends Table { > > > >> >>>>> // Bounded only operation. > > > >> >>>>> BoundedTable sort(...); > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> // Interaction with another BoundedTable returns a > BoundedTable. > > > >> >>>>> BoundedTable join(BoundedTable other) > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> // Interaction with another unbounded table returns an > unbounded > > > >> >> table. > > > >> >>>>> Table join(Table other) > > > >> >>>>> } > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> *Final state 2*: One unified API for bounded / unbounded > > > DataStream > > > >> / > > > >> >>>>> Table. > > > >> >>>>> That unified API may throw exception at DAG compilation time > if > > an > > > >> >>>> invalid > > > >> >>>>> operation is tried. This is what Table API currently follows. > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> DataStream { > > > >> >>>>> // Throws exception if the DataStream is unbounded. > > > >> >>>>> DataStream sort(); > > > >> >>>>> // Get boundedness. > > > >> >>>>> Boundedness getBoundedness(); > > > >> >>>>> } > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> Table { > > > >> >>>>> // Throws exception if the table has infinite rows. > > > >> >>>>> Table orderBy(); > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> // Get boundedness. > > > >> >>>>> Boundedness getBoundedness(); > > > >> >>>>> } > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> >From what I understand, there is no consensus so far on this > > > >> decision > > > >> >>>> yet. > > > >> >>>>> Whichever final state we choose, we need to make it consistent > > > >> across > > > >> >>> the > > > >> >>>>> entire project. We should avoid the case that Table follows > one > > > >> final > > > >> >>>> state > > > >> >>>>> while DataStream follows another. Some arguments I am aware of > > > from > > > >> >>> both > > > >> >>>>> sides so far are following: > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> Arguments for final state 1: > > > >> >>>>> 1a) Clean API with method safety check at programming time. > > > >> >>>>> 1b) (Counter 2b) Although SQL does not have programming time > > error > > > >> >>>> check, SQL > > > >> >>>>> is not really a "programming language" per se. So SQL can be > > > >> >> different > > > >> >>>> from > > > >> >>>>> Table and DataStream. > > > >> >>>>> 1c) Although final state 2 seems making it easier for SQL to > > use > > > >> >> given > > > >> >>>> it > > > >> >>>>> is more "config based" than "parameter based", final state 1 > can > > > >> >>> probably > > > >> >>>>> also meet what SQL wants by wrapping the Source in > TableSource / > > > >> >>>>> TableSourceFactory API if needed. > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> Arguments for final state 2: > > > >> >>>>> 2a) The Source API itself seems already sort of following the > > > >> unified > > > >> >>> API > > > >> >>>>> pattern. > > > >> >>>>> 2b) There is no "programming time" method error check in SQL > > case, > > > >> so > > > >> >>> we > > > >> >>>>> cannot really achieve final state 1 across the board. > > > >> >>>>> 2c) It is an easier path given our current status, i.e. Table > is > > > >> >>> already > > > >> >>>>> following final state 2. > > > >> >>>>> 2d) Users can always explicitly check the boundedness if they > > want > > > >> >> to. > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> As I mentioned earlier, my initial thought was also to have a > > > >> >>>>> "configuration based" Source rather than a "parameter based" > > > Source. > > > >> >> So > > > >> >>>> it > > > >> >>>>> is completely possible that I missed some important > > consideration > > > or > > > >> >>>> design > > > >> >>>>> principles that we want to enforce for the project. It would > be > > > good > > > >> >>>>> if @Stephan > > > >> >>>>> Ewen <step...@ververica.com> and @Aljoscha Krettek < > > > >> >>>> aljos...@ververica.com> can > > > >> >>>>> also provide more thoughts on this. > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> Re: Jingsong > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> As you said, there are some batched system source, like > > > parquet/orc > > > >> >>>> source. > > > >> >>>>>> Could we have the batch emit interface to improve > performance? > > > The > > > >> >>>> queue of > > > >> >>>>>> per record may cause performance degradation. > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> The current interface does not necessarily cause performance > > > problem > > > >> >>> in a > > > >> >>>>> multi-threading case. In fact, the base implementation allows > > > >> >>>> SplitReaders > > > >> >>>>> to add a batch <E> of records<T> to the records queue<E>, so > > each > > > >> >>> element > > > >> >>>>> in the records queue would be a batch <E>. In this case, when > > the > > > >> >> main > > > >> >>>>> thread polls records, it will take a batch <E> of records <T> > > from > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>> shared records queue and process the records <T> in a batch > > > manner. > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> Thanks, > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 1:29 PM Jingsong Li < > > > jingsongl...@gmail.com > > > >> > > > > >> >>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> Hi Becket, > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> I also have some performance concerns too. > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> If I understand correctly, SourceOutput will emit data per > > record > > > >> >> into > > > >> >>>> the > > > >> >>>>>> queue? I'm worried about the multithreading performance of > this > > > >> >> queue. > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> One example is some batched messaging systems which only > have > > an > > > >> >>> offset > > > >> >>>>>> for the entire batch instead of individual messages in the > > batch. > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> As you said, there are some batched system source, like > > > parquet/orc > > > >> >>>> source. > > > >> >>>>>> Could we have the batch emit interface to improve > performance? > > > The > > > >> >>>> queue of > > > >> >>>>>> per record may cause performance degradation. > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>> Jingsong Lee > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 9:15 AM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> Hi Becket, > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> I think Dawid explained things clearly and makes a lot of > > sense. > > > >> >>>>>>> I'm also in favor of #2, because #1 doesn't work for our > > future > > > >> >>> unified > > > >> >>>>>>> envrionment. > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> You can see the vision in this documentation [1]. In the > > future, > > > >> we > > > >> >>>> would > > > >> >>>>>>> like to > > > >> >>>>>>> drop the global streaming/batch mode in SQL (i.e. > > > >> >>>>>>> EnvironmentSettings#inStreamingMode/inBatchMode). > > > >> >>>>>>> A source is bounded or unbounded once defined, so queries > can > > be > > > >> >>>> inferred > > > >> >>>>>>> from source to run > > > >> >>>>>>> in streaming or batch or hybrid mode. However, in #1, we > will > > > lose > > > >> >>> this > > > >> >>>>>>> ability because the framework > > > >> >>>>>>> doesn't know whether the source is bounded or unbounded. > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>>> Jark > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> [1]: > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yrKXEIRATfxHJJ0K3t6wUgXAtZq8D-XgvEnvl2uUcr0/edit#heading=h.v4ib17buma1p > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 20:52, Piotr Nowojski < > > > pi...@ververica.com > > > >> > > > > >> >>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> Hi, > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> Regarding the: > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> Collection<E> getNextRecords() > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> I’m pretty sure such design would unfortunately impact the > > > >> >>> performance > > > >> >>>>>>>> (accessing and potentially creating the collection on the > hot > > > >> >> path). > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> Also the > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> InputStatus emitNext(DataOutput<T> output) throws > Exception; > > > >> >>>>>>>> or > > > >> >>>>>>>> Status pollNext(SourceOutput<T> sourceOutput) throws > > Exception; > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> Gives us some opportunities in the future, to allow Source > > hot > > > >> >>> looping > > > >> >>>>>>>> inside, until it receives some signal “please exit because > of > > > >> some > > > >> >>>>>>> reasons” > > > >> >>>>>>>> (output collector could return such hint upon collecting > the > > > >> >>> result). > > > >> >>>>>> But > > > >> >>>>>>>> that’s another topic outside of this FLIP’s scope. > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> Piotrek > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>> On 11 Dec 2019, at 10:41, Till Rohrmann < > > trohrm...@apache.org > > > > > > > >> >>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>> Hi Becket, > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>> quick clarification from my side because I think you > > > >> >> misunderstood > > > >> >>> my > > > >> >>>>>>>>> question. I did not suggest to let the SourceReader return > > > only > > > >> a > > > >> >>>>>>> single > > > >> >>>>>>>>> record at a time when calling getNextRecords. As the > return > > > type > > > >> >>>>>>>> indicates, > > > >> >>>>>>>>> the method can return an arbitrary number of records. > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, > > > >> >>>>>>>>> Till > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:13 AM Dawid Wysakowicz < > > > >> >>>>>>>> dwysakow...@apache.org <mailto:dwysakow...@apache.org>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Becket, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Issue #1 - Design of Source interface > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I mentioned the lack of a method like > > > >> >>>>>>>> Source#createEnumerator(Boundedness > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> boundedness, SplitEnumeratorContext context), because > > without > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>>>>> current > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> proposal is not complete/does not work. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> If we say that boundedness is an intrinsic property of a > > > source > > > >> >>> imo > > > >> >>>>>> we > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> don't need the Source#createEnumerator(Boundedness > > > boundedness, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SplitEnumeratorContext context) method. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Assuming a source from my previous example: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Source source = KafkaSource.builder() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> ... > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> .untilTimestamp(...) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> .build() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Would the enumerator differ if created like > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source.createEnumerator(CONTINUOUS_UNBOUNDED, ...) vs > > source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> .createEnumerator(BOUNDED, ...)? I know I am repeating > > > myself, > > > >> >> but > > > >> >>>>>>> this > > > >> >>>>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the part that my opinion differ the most from the current > > > >> >>> proposal. > > > >> >>>>>> I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> really think it should always be the source that tells if > > it > > > is > > > >> >>>>>>> bounded > > > >> >>>>>>>> or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not. In the current proposal methods > > > >> >> continousSource/boundedSource > > > >> >>>>>>>> somewhat > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> reconfigure the source, which I think is misleading. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I think a call like: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Source source = KafkaSource.builder() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> ... > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> .readContinously() / readUntilLatestOffset() / > > > >> >>> readUntilTimestamp > > > >> >>>> / > > > >> >>>>>>>> readUntilOffsets / ... > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> .build() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is way cleaner (and expressive) than > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Source source = KafkaSource.builder() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> ... > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> .build() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.continousSource(source) // which actually underneath > > > would > > > >> >>> call > > > >> >>>>>>>> createEnumerator(CONTINUOUS, ctx) which would be equivalent > > to > > > >> >>>>>>>> source.readContinously().createEnumerator(ctx) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.boundedSource(source) // which actually underneath > > would > > > >> >> call > > > >> >>>>>>>> createEnumerator(BOUNDED, ctx) which would be equivalent to > > > >> >>>>>>>> source.readUntilLatestOffset().createEnumerator(ctx) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry for the comparison, but to me it seems there is too > > > much > > > >> >>> magic > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> happening underneath those two calls. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I really believe the Source interface should have > > > >> getBoundedness > > > >> >>>>>>> method > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> instead of (supportBoundedness) + > > > createEnumerator(Boundedness, > > > >> >>> ...) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Issue #2 - Design of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> ExecutionEnvironment#source()/continuousSource()/boundedSource() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> As you might have guessed I am slightly in favor of > option > > #2 > > > >> >>>>>>> modified. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Yes I am aware every step of the dag would have to be > able > > to > > > >> >> say > > > >> >>> if > > > >> >>>>>>> it > > > >> >>>>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> bounded or not. I have a feeling it would be easier to > > > express > > > >> >>> cross > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> bounded/unbounded operations, but I must admit I have not > > > >> >> thought > > > >> >>> it > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> through thoroughly, In the spirit of batch is just a > > special > > > >> >> case > > > >> >>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> streaming I thought BoundedStream would extend from > > > DataStream. > > > >> >>>>>>> Correct > > > >> >>>>>>>> me > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> if I am wrong. In such a setup the cross > bounded/unbounded > > > >> >>> operation > > > >> >>>>>>>> could > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be expressed quite easily I think: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream { > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream join(DataStream, ...); // we could not > really > > > >> tell > > > >> >> if > > > >> >>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>> result is bounded or not, but because bounded stream is a > > > special > > > >> >>> case > > > >> >>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>> unbounded the API object is correct, irrespective if the > left > > > or > > > >> >>> right > > > >> >>>>>>> side > > > >> >>>>>>>> of the join is bounded > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> } > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> BoundedStream extends DataStream { > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> BoundedStream join(BoundedStream, ...); // only if > both > > > >> sides > > > >> >>> are > > > >> >>>>>>>> bounded the result can be bounded as well. However we do > have > > > >> >> access > > > >> >>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>> DataStream#join here, so you can still join with a > DataStream > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> } > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand I also see benefits of two completely > > > >> >> disjointed > > > >> >>>>>>> APIs, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> as we could prohibit some streaming calls in the bounded > > > API. I > > > >> >>>>>> can't > > > >> >>>>>>>> think > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of any unbounded operators that could not be implemented > > for > > > >> >>> bounded > > > >> >>>>>>>> stream. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Besides I think we both agree we don't like the method: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream boundedStream(Source) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> suggested in the current state of the FLIP. Do we ? :) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Dawid > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/12/2019 18:57, Becket Qin wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi folks, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the discussion, great feedback. Also thanks > > Dawid > > > >> for > > > >> >>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> explanation, it is much clearer now. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> One thing that is indeed missing from the FLIP is how the > > > >> >>>>>> boundedness > > > >> >>>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> passed to the Source implementation. So the API should be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Source#createEnumerator(Boundedness boundedness, > > > >> >>>>>>> SplitEnumeratorContext > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> context) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> And we can probably remove the > > > >> >>> Source#supportBoundedness(Boundedness > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> boundedness) method. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Assuming we have that, we are essentially choosing from > one > > > of > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> following two options: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Option 1: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // The source is continuous source, and only unbounded > > > >> >> operations > > > >> >>>>>> can > > > >> >>>>>>> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> performed. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream<Type> datastream = > > > env.continuousSource(someSource); > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // The source is bounded source, both bounded and > unbounded > > > >> >>>>>> operations > > > >> >>>>>>>> can > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be performed. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> BoundedDataStream<Type> boundedDataStream = > > > >> >>>>>>>> env.boundedSource(someSource); > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Pros: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a) explicit boundary between bounded / unbounded > > > >> streams, > > > >> >>> it > > > >> >>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> quite simple and clear to the users. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Cons: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a) For applications that do not involve bounded > > > >> >> operations, > > > >> >>>>>> they > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> still have to call different API to distinguish bounded / > > > >> >>> unbounded > > > >> >>>>>>>> streams. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> b) No support for bounded stream to run in a > > > streaming > > > >> >>>> runtime > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> setting, i.e. scheduling and operators behaviors. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Option 2: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // The source is either bounded or unbounded, but only > > > >> unbounded > > > >> >>>>>>>> operations > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> could be performed on the returned DataStream. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream<Type> dataStream = env.source(someSource); > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // The source must be a bounded source, otherwise > exception > > > is > > > >> >>>>>> thrown. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> BoundedDataStream<Type> boundedDataStream = > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.boundedSource(boundedSource); > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> The pros and cons are exactly the opposite of option 1. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Pros: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a) For applications that do not involve bounded > > > >> >> operations, > > > >> >>>>>> they > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> still have to call different API to distinguish bounded / > > > >> >>> unbounded > > > >> >>>>>>>> streams. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> b) Support for bounded stream to run in a > streaming > > > >> >> runtime > > > >> >>>>>>>> setting, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> i.e. scheduling and operators behaviors. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Cons: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a) Bounded / unbounded streams are kind of mixed, > > > i.e. > > > >> >>> given > > > >> >>>> a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream, it is not clear whether it is bounded or not, > > > >> unless > > > >> >>> you > > > >> >>>>>>>> have > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the access to its source. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> If we only think from the Source API perspective, option > 2 > > > >> >> seems a > > > >> >>>>>>>> better > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> choice because functionality wise it is a superset of > > option > > > 1, > > > >> >> at > > > >> >>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>> cost > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of some seemingly acceptable ambiguity in the DataStream > > API. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> But if we look at the DataStream API as a whole, option 1 > > > seems > > > >> >> a > > > >> >>>>>>>> clearer > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> choice. For example, some times a library may have to > know > > > >> >>> whether a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> certain task will finish or not. And it would be > difficult > > to > > > >> >> tell > > > >> >>>>>> if > > > >> >>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> input is a DataStream, unless additional information is > > > >> provided > > > >> >>> all > > > >> >>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> way from the Source. One possible solution is to have a > > > >> >> *modified > > > >> >>>>>>>> option 2* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> which adds a method to the DataStream API to indicate > > > >> >> boundedness, > > > >> >>>>>>> such > > > >> >>>>>>>> as > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> getBoundedness(). It would solve the problem with a > > potential > > > >> >>>>>>> confusion > > > >> >>>>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> what is difference between a DataStream with > > > >> >> getBoundedness()=true > > > >> >>>>>>> and a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> BoundedDataStream. But that seems not super difficult to > > > >> >> explain. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> So from API's perspective, I don't have a strong opinion > > > >> between > > > >> >>>>>>>> *option 1* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and *modified option 2. *I like the cleanness of option > 1, > > > but > > > >> >>>>>>> modified > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> option 2 would be more attractive if we have concrete use > > > case > > > >> >> for > > > >> >>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> "Bounded stream with unbounded streaming runtime > settings". > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Re: Till > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe this has already been asked before but I was > > wondering > > > >> why > > > >> >>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SourceReader interface has the method pollNext which > hands > > > the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> responsibility of outputting elements to the SourceReader > > > >> >>>>>>>> implementation? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Has this been done for backwards compatibility reasons > with > > > the > > > >> >>> old > > > >> >>>>>>>> source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> interface? If not, then one could define a Collection<E> > > > >> >>>>>>>> getNextRecords() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> method which returns the currently retrieved records and > > then > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>>>> caller > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> emits them outside of the SourceReader. That way the > > > interface > > > >> >>> would > > > >> >>>>>>> not > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> allow to implement an outputting loop where we never hand > > > back > > > >> >>>>>> control > > > >> >>>>>>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the caller. At the moment, this contract can be easily > > broken > > > >> >> and > > > >> >>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>> only > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mentioned loosely in the JavaDocs. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> The primary reason we handover the SourceOutput to the > > > >> >>> SourceReader > > > >> >>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> because sometimes it is difficult for a SourceReader to > > emit > > > >> one > > > >> >>>>>>> record > > > >> >>>>>>>> at > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a time. One example is some batched messaging systems > which > > > >> only > > > >> >>>>>> have > > > >> >>>>>>> an > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> offset for the entire batch instead of individual > messages > > in > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>>>>> batch. In > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that case, returning one record at a time would leave the > > > >> >>>>>> SourceReader > > > >> >>>>>>>> in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> an uncheckpointable state because they can only > checkpoint > > at > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>>>> batch > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> boundaries. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 5:33 PM Till Rohrmann < > > > >> >>> trohrm...@apache.org > > > >> >>>>>>>> <mailto:trohrm...@apache.org>> <trohrm...@apache.org > > <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> trohrm...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> thanks for drafting this FLIP. It reads very well. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Concerning Dawid's proposal, I tend to agree. The > > boundedness > > > >> >>> could > > > >> >>>>>>> come > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> from the source and tell the system how to treat the > > operator > > > >> >>>>>>>> (scheduling > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wise). From a user's perspective it should be fine to get > > > back > > > >> a > > > >> >>>>>>>> DataStream > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> when calling env.source(boundedSource) if he does not > need > > > >> >> special > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> operations defined on a BoundedDataStream. If he needs > > this, > > > >> >> then > > > >> >>>>>> one > > > >> >>>>>>>> could > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> use the method BoundedDataStream > > > >> >> env.boundedSource(boundedSource). > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> If possible, we could enforce the proper usage of > > > >> >>>>>> env.boundedSource() > > > >> >>>>>>> by > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> introducing a BoundedSource type so that one cannot pass > an > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> unbounded source to it. That way users would not be able > to > > > >> >> shoot > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> themselves in the foot. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe this has already been asked before but I was > > wondering > > > >> why > > > >> >>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SourceReader interface has the method pollNext which > hands > > > the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> responsibility of outputting elements to the SourceReader > > > >> >>>>>>>> implementation? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Has this been done for backwards compatibility reasons > with > > > the > > > >> >>> old > > > >> >>>>>>>> source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> interface? If not, then one could define a Collection<E> > > > >> >>>>>>>> getNextRecords() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> method which returns the currently retrieved records and > > then > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>>>> caller > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> emits them outside of the SourceReader. That way the > > > interface > > > >> >>> would > > > >> >>>>>>> not > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> allow to implement an outputting loop where we never hand > > > back > > > >> >>>>>> control > > > >> >>>>>>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the caller. At the moment, this contract can be easily > > broken > > > >> >> and > > > >> >>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>> only > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mentioned loosely in the JavaDocs. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Till > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 7:49 AM Jingsong Li < > > > >> >>> jingsongl...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>>>>> <mailto:jingsongl...@gmail.com>> <jingsongl...@gmail.com > > > >> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> jingsongl...@gmail.com>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I think current design is good. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> My understanding is: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> For execution mode: bounded mode and continuous mode, > It's > > > >> >> totally > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> different. I don't think we have the ability to integrate > > the > > > >> >> two > > > >> >>>>>>> models > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> at > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> present. It's about scheduling, memory, algorithms, > States, > > > >> etc. > > > >> >>> we > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> shouldn't confuse them. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> For source capabilities: only bounded, only continuous, > > both > > > >> >>> bounded > > > >> >>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> continuous. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I think Kafka is a source that can be ran both bounded > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and continuous execution mode. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> And Kafka with end offset should be ran both bounded > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and continuous execution mode. Using apache Beam with > > Flink > > > >> >>>>>> runner, I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> used > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to run a "bounded" Kafka in streaming mode. For our > > previous > > > >> >>>>>>> DataStream, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> it > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is not necessarily required that the source cannot be > > > bounded. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> So it is my thought for Dawid's question: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1.pass a bounded source to continuousSource() +1 > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 2.pass a continuous source to boundedSource() -1, should > > > throw > > > >> >>>>>>>> exception. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> In StreamExecutionEnvironment, continuousSource and > > > >> >> boundedSource > > > >> >>>>>>> define > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the execution mode. It defines a clear boundary of > > execution > > > >> >> mode. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Jingsong Lee > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:37 AM Jark Wu < > imj...@gmail.com > > > >> >>> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> imj...@gmail.com>> <imj...@gmail.com <mailto: > > imj...@gmail.com > > > >> > > > >> >>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I agree with Dawid's point that the boundedness > information > > > >> >> should > > > >> >>>>>>> come > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> from the source itself (e.g. the end timestamp), not > > through > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.boundedSouce()/continuousSource(). > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I think if we want to support something like > `env.source()` > > > >> that > > > >> >>>>>>> derive > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> execution mode from source, > > > `supportsBoundedness(Boundedness)` > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> method is not enough, because we don't know whether it is > > > >> >> bounded > > > >> >>> or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Jark > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 at 22:21, Dawid Wysakowicz < > > > >> >>>>>> dwysakow...@apache.org > > > >> >>>>>>>> <mailto:dwysakow...@apache.org>> <dwysakow...@apache.org > > > >> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> dwysakow...@apache.org>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> One more thing. In the current proposal, with the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> supportsBoundedness(Boundedness) method and the > boundedness > > > >> >> coming > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> from > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> either continuousSource or boundedSource I could not find > > how > > > >> >> this > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> information is fed back to the SplitEnumerator. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Dawid > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On 09/12/2019 13:52, Becket Qin wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Dawid, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the comments. This actually brings another > > > relevant > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> question > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> about what does a "bounded source" imply. I actually had > > the > > > >> >> same > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> impression when I look at the Source API. Here is what I > > > >> >>> understand > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> after > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> some discussion with Stephan. The bounded source has the > > > >> >> following > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> impacts. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1. API validity. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - A bounded source generates a bounded stream so some > > > >> operations > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> only > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> works for bounded records would be performed, e.g. sort. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - To expose these bounded stream only APIs, there are two > > > >> >> options: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a. Add them to the DataStream API and throw > exception > > > if > > > >> a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> method > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> called on an unbounded stream. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> b. Create a BoundedDataStream class which is > returned > > > >> from > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.boundedSource(), while DataStream is returned from > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.continousSource(). > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Note that this cannot be done by having single > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.source(theSource) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> even > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the Source has a getBoundedness() method. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 2. Scheduling > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - A bounded source could be computed stage by stage > without > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> bringing > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> up > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> all > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the tasks at the same time. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 3. Operator behaviors > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - A bounded source indicates the records are finite so > some > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> operators > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> can > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wait until it receives all the records before it starts > the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> processing. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> In the above impact, only 1 is relevant to the API > design. > > > And > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> current > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> proposal in FLIP-27 is following 1.b. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // boundedness depends of source property, imo this > should > > > >> >> always > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> preferred > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream<MyType> stream = env.source(theSource); > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> In your proposal, does DataStream have bounded stream > only > > > >> >>> methods? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> It > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> looks it should have, otherwise passing a bounded Source > to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.source() > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> would be confusing. In that case, we will essentially do > > 1.a > > > if > > > >> >> an > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> unbounded Source is created from > > env.source(unboundedSource). > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> If we have the methods only supported for bounded streams > > in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> it > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> seems a little weird to have a separate BoundedDataStream > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> interface. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Am I understand it correctly? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 6:40 PM Dawid Wysakowicz < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> dwysakow...@apache.org <mailto:dwysakow...@apache.org>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Really well written proposal and very important one. I > must > > > >> >> admit > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> have > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not understood all the intricacies of it yet. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> One question I have though is about where does the > > > information > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> about > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> boundedness come from. I think in most cases it is a > > property > > > >> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source. As you described it might be e.g. end offset, a > > flag > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> should > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> it > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> monitor new splits etc. I think it would be a really nice > > use > > > >> >> case > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> able to say: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> new KafkaSource().readUntil(long timestamp), > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> which could work as an "end offset". Moreover I think all > > > >> >> Bounded > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> sources > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> support continuous mode, but no intrinsically continuous > > > source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> support > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Bounded mode. If I understood the proposal correctly it > > > suggest > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> boundedness sort of "comes" from the outside of the > source, > > > >> from > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> invokation of either boundedStream or continousSource. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I am wondering if it would make sense to actually change > > the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> method > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> boolean Source#supportsBoundedness(Boundedness) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Boundedness Source#getBoundedness(). > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> As for the methods #boundedSource, #continousSource, > > assuming > > > >> >> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> boundedness is property of the source they do not affect > > how > > > >> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> enumerator > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> works, but mostly how the dag is scheduled, right? I am > not > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> against > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> those > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> methods, but I think it is a very specific use case to > > > actually > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> override > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the property of the source. In general I would expect > users > > > to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> only > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> call > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> env.source(theSource), where the source tells if it is > > > bounded > > > >> >> or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not. I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> would suggest considering following set of methods: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // boundedness depends of source property, imo this > should > > > >> >> always > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> preferred > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream<MyType> stream = env.source(theSource); > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // always continous execution, whether bounded or > unbounded > > > >> >> source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DataStream<MyType> boundedStream = > > > >> >> env.continousSource(theSource); > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> // imo this would make sense if the BoundedDataStream > > > provides > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> additional features unavailable for continous mode > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> BoundedDataStream<MyType> batch = > > > env.boundedSource(theSource); > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Dawid > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On 04/12/2019 11:25, Stephan Ewen wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Becket, for updating this. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I agree with moving the aspects you mentioned into > separate > > > >> >> FLIPs > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> this > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> one way becoming unwieldy in size. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> +1 to the FLIP in its current state. Its a very detailed > > > >> >> write-up, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> nicely > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> done! > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 7:38 AM Becket Qin < > > > >> becket....@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>>>>> <mailto:becket....@gmail.com>> <becket....@gmail.com > > <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> becket....@gmail.com>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> becket....@gmail.com <mailto:becket....@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry for the long belated update. I have updated FLIP-27 > > > wiki > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> page > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> with > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the latest proposals. Some noticeable changes include: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1. A new generic communication mechanism between > > > >> SplitEnumerator > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SourceReader. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 2. Some detail API method signature changes. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> We left a few things out of this FLIP and will address > them > > > in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> separate > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> FLIPs. Including: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Per split event time. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 2. Event time alignment. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 3. Fine grained failover for SplitEnumerator failure. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Please let us know if you have any question. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 6:10 AM Stephan Ewen < > > > se...@apache.org > > > >> >>>>>>> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> se...@apache.org>> <se...@apache.org <mailto: > > se...@apache.org > > > >> > > > >> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> se...@apache.org <mailto:se...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Łukasz! > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Becket and me are working hard on figuring out the last > > > details > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> implementing the first PoC. We would update the FLIP > > > hopefully > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> next > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> week. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> There is a fair chance that a first version of this will > be > > > in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1.10, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> but > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> think it will take another release to battle test it and > > > >> migrate > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> connectors. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Stephan > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:14 AM Łukasz Jędrzejewski < > > > >> >> l...@touk.pl > > > >> >>>>>>>> <mailto:l...@touk.pl> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> l...@touk.pl <mailto:l...@touk.pl>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> This proposal looks very promising for us. Do you have > any > > > >> plans > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> which > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Flink release it is going to be released? We are thinking > > on > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> using a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Data > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Set API for our future use cases but on the other hand > Data > > > Set > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> API > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> going to be deprecated so using proposed bounded data > > streams > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> solution > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> could be more viable in the long term. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Łukasz > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On 2019/10/01 15:48:03, Thomas Weise < > > thomas.we...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>>> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> thomas.we...@gmail.com>> <thomas.we...@gmail.com <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> thomas.we...@gmail.com>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> thomas.we...@gmail.com <mailto:thomas.we...@gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for putting together this proposal! > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I see that the "Per Split Event Time" and "Event Time > > > >> Alignment" > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> sections > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> are still TBD. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> It would probably be good to flesh those out a bit before > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> proceeding > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> too > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> far > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> as the event time alignment will probably influence the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> interaction > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> with > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the split reader, specifically ReaderStatus > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> emitNext(SourceOutput<E> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> output). > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> We currently have only one implementation for event time > > > >> >> alignment > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Kinesis consumer. The synchronization in that case takes > > > place > > > >> >> as > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> last > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> step before records are emitted downstream > (RecordEmitter). > > > >> With > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> currently proposed interfaces, the equivalent can be > > > >> implemented > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> reader loop, although note that in the Kinesis consumer > the > > > per > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> shard > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> threads push records. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Synchronization has not been implemented for the Kafka > > > consumer > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> yet. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-12675 < > > > >> >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-12675> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> When I looked at it, I realized that the implementation > > will > > > >> >> look > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> quite > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> different > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> from Kinesis because it needs to take place in the pull > > part, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> where > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> records > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> are taken from the Kafka client. Due to the multiplexing > it > > > >> >> cannot > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> done > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> by blocking the split thread like it currently works for > > > >> >> Kinesis. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Reading > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> from individual Kafka partitions needs to be controlled > via > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> pause/resume > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> on the Kafka client. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> To take on that responsibility the split thread would > need > > to > > > >> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> aware > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermarks or at least whether it should or should not > > > continue > > > >> >> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> consume > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a given split and this may require a different > SourceReader > > > or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SourceOutput > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> interface. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thomas > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 1:39 AM Biao Liu < > > mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>>> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com>> <mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto: > > > >> >> mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto:mmyy1...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Stephan, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for feedback! > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Will take a look at your branch before public discussing. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:01 AM Stephan Ewen < > > > >> se...@apache.org > > > >> >>>>>>>> <mailto:se...@apache.org>> <se...@apache.org <mailto: > > > >> >>> se...@apache.org > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> se...@apache.org <mailto:se...@apache.org>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Biao! > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for reviving this. I would like to join this > > > discussion, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> but > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> am > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> quite occupied with the 1.9 release, so can we maybe > pause > > > this > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> discussion > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> for a week or so? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> In the meantime I can share some suggestion based on > prior > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> experiments: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> How to do watermarks / timestamp extractors in a simpler > > and > > > >> >> more > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> flexible > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> way. I think that part is quite promising should be part > of > > > the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> new > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> interface. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://github.com/StephanEwen/flink/tree/source_interface/flink-core/src/main/java/org/apache/flink/api/common/eventtime > > > >> >>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://github.com/StephanEwen/flink/tree/source_interface/flink-core/src/main/java/org/apache/flink/api/common/eventtime > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://github.com/StephanEwen/flink/blob/source_interface/flink-core/src/main/java/org/apache/flink/api/common/src/SourceOutput.java > > > >> >>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://github.com/StephanEwen/flink/blob/source_interface/flink-core/src/main/java/org/apache/flink/api/common/src/SourceOutput.java > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Some experiments on how to build the source reader and > its > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> library > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> common threading/split patterns: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://github.com/StephanEwen/flink/tree/source_interface/flink-core/src/main/java/org/apache/flink/api/common/src > > > >> >>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://github.com/StephanEwen/flink/tree/source_interface/flink-core/src/main/java/org/apache/flink/api/common/src > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Stephan > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:03 AM Biao Liu < > > > mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>>>> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com>> <mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto: > > > >> >> mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto:mmyy1...@gmail.com>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi devs, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Since 1.9 is nearly released, I think we could get back > to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> FLIP-27. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> believe it should be included in 1.10. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> There are so many things mentioned in document of > FLIP-27. > > > [1] > > > >> I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> think > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> we'd better discuss them separately. However the wiki is > > not > > > a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> good > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> place > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to discuss. I wrote google doc about SplitReader API > which > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> misses > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> some > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> details in the document. [2] > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-27:+Refactor+Source+Interface > > > >> >>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-27:+Refactor+Source+Interface > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 2. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R1s_89T4S3CZwq7Tf31DciaMCqZwrLHGZFqPASu66oE/edit?usp=sharing > > > >> >>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R1s_89T4S3CZwq7Tf31DciaMCqZwrLHGZFqPASu66oE/edit?usp=sharing > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> CC Stephan, Aljoscha, Piotrek, Becket > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:38 PM Biao Liu < > > mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>>> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com>> <mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto: > > > >> >> mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto:mmyy1...@gmail.com>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Steven, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the feedback. Please take a look at the > > > document > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> FLIP-27 > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-27%3A+Refactor+Source+Interface > > > >> >>>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-27%3A+Refactor+Source+Interface > > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> which > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is updated recently. A lot of details of enumerator were > > > added > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> this > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> document. I think it would help. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Steven Wu <stevenz...@gmail.com <mailto: > > stevenz...@gmail.com > > > >> > > > >> >> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> stevenz...@gmail.com <mailto:stevenz...@gmail.com>> < > > > >> >>>>>>> stevenz...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>>>>> <mailto:stevenz...@gmail.com>> <stevenz...@gmail.com > > <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> stevenz...@gmail.com>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 于2019年3月28日周四 > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 下午12:52写道: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> This proposal mentioned that SplitEnumerator might run on > > the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> JobManager or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> in a single task on a TaskManager. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> if enumerator is a single task on a taskmanager, then the > > job > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> DAG > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> can > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> never > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> been embarrassingly parallel anymore. That will nullify > the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> leverage > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> fine-grained recovery for embarrassingly parallel jobs. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> It's not clear to me what's the implication of running > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> enumerator > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> on > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> jobmanager. So I will leave that out for now. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 3:05 AM Biao Liu < > > mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>>> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com>> <mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto: > > > >> >> mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto:mmyy1...@gmail.com>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Stephan & Piotrek, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for feedback. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> It seems that there are a lot of things to do in > community. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> am > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> just > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> afraid that this discussion may be forgotten since there > so > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> many > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> proposals > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> recently. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Anyway, wish to see the split topics soon :) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Piotr Nowojski <pi...@da-platform.com <mailto: > > > >> >>> pi...@da-platform.com > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> pi...@da-platform.com <mailto:pi...@da-platform.com>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> pi...@da-platform.com <mailto:pi...@da-platform.com>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>> pi...@da-platform.com <mailto:pi...@da-platform.com>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 于2019年1月24日周四 > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 下午8:21写道: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Biao! > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> This discussion was stalled because of preparations for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> open > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> sourcing > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> & merging Blink. I think before creating the tickets we > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> should > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> split this > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> discussion into topics/areas outlined by Stephan and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> create > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Flips > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I think there is no chance for this to be completed in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> couple > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> remaining > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> weeks/1 month before 1.8 feature freeze, however it would > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> good > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to aim > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> with those changes for 1.9. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Piotrek > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On 20 Jan 2019, at 16:08, Biao Liu <mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com>> <mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto: > > > >> >> mmyy1...@gmail.com > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto:mmyy1...@gmail.com>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi community, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> The summary of Stephan makes a lot sense to me. It is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> much > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> clearer > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> indeed > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> after splitting the complex topic into small ones. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I was wondering is there any detail plan for next step? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> If > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> would > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> like to push this thing forward by creating some JIRA > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> issues. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Another question is that should version 1.8 include > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> these > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> features? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org <mailto:se...@apache.org > >> > > < > > > >> >>>>>>>> se...@apache.org <mailto:se...@apache.org>> < > > se...@apache.org > > > >> >>>> <mailto: > > > >> >>>>>>>> se...@apache.org>> <se...@apache.org <mailto: > > se...@apache.org > > > >> > > > >> >>>>>>>> 于2018年12月1日周六 > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 上午4:20写道: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone for the lively discussion. Let me try > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> summarize > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> where I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> see convergence in the discussion and open issues. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I'll try to group this by design aspect of the source. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Please > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> let me > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> know > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> if I got things wrong or missed something crucial here. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> For issues 1-3, if the below reflects the state of the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> discussion, I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> would > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> try and update the FLIP in the next days. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> For the remaining ones we need more discussion. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I would suggest to fork each of these aspects into a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> separate > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mail > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> thread, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> or will loose sight of the individual aspects. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> *(1) Separation of Split Enumerator and Split Reader* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - All seem to agree this is a good thing > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Split Enumerator could in the end live on JobManager > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> (and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> assign > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> via RPC) or in a task (and assign splits via data > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> streams) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - this discussion is orthogonal and should come later, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> when > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> interface > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is agreed upon. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> *(2) Split Readers for one or more splits* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Discussion seems to agree that we need to support > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> one > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> reader > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> possibly handles multiple splits concurrently. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - The requirement comes from sources where one > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> poll()-style > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> call > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> fetches > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> data from different splits / partitions > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --> example sources that require that would be for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> example > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Kafka, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Pravega, Pulsar > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Could have one split reader per source, or multiple > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> split > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> readers > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> share the "poll()" function > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - To not make it too complicated, we can start with > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> thinking > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> about > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> one > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> split reader for all splits initially and see if that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> covers > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> all > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> requirements > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> *(3) Threading model of the Split Reader* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Most active part of the discussion ;-) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - A non-blocking way for Flink's task code to interact > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> with > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> needed in order to a task runtime code based on a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> single-threaded/actor-style task design > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --> I personally am a big proponent of that, it will > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> help > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> with > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> well-behaved checkpoints, efficiency, and simpler yet > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> more > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> robust > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> runtime > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> code > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Users care about simple abstraction, so as a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> subclass > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SplitReader > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> (non-blocking / async) we need to have a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> BlockingSplitReader > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> which > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> will > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> form the basis of most source implementations. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> BlockingSplitReader > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> lets > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> users do blocking simple poll() calls. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - The BlockingSplitReader would spawn a thread (or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> more) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> thread(s) can make blocking calls and hand over data > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> buffers > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> via > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> blocking > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> queue > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - This should allow us to cover both, a fully async > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> runtime, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> simple > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> blocking interface for users. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - This is actually very similar to how the Kafka > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> connectors > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> work. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Kafka > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 9+ with one thread, Kafka 8 with multiple threads > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - On the base SplitReader (the async one), the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> non-blocking > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> method > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> gets the next chunk of data would signal data > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> availability > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> via > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> CompletableFuture, because that gives the best > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> flexibility > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> (can > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> await > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> completion or register notification handlers). > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - The source task would register a "thenHandle()" (or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> similar) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> on the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> future to put a "take next data" task into the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> actor-style > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> mailbox > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> *(4) Split Enumeration and Assignment* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Splits may be generated lazily, both in cases where > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> there > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> limited > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> number of splits (but very many), or splits are > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> discovered > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> over > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> time > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Assignment should also be lazy, to get better load > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> balancing > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Assignment needs support locality preferences > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Possible design based on discussion so far: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --> SplitReader has a method "addSplits(SplitT...)" > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> add > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> one or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> more > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits. Some split readers might assume they have only > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> one > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> split > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> ever, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> concurrently, others assume multiple splits. (Note: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> idea > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> behind > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> being > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> able > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to add multiple splits at the same time is to ease > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> startup > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> where > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> multiple > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits may be assigned instantly.) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --> SplitReader has a context object on which it can > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> call > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> indicate > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> when > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits are completed. The enumerator gets that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> notification and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> can > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> use > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> decide when to assign new splits. This should help both > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> cases > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> sources > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that take splits lazily (file readers) and in case the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> needs to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> preserve a partial order between splits (Kinesis, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Pravega, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Pulsar may > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> need > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that). > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --> SplitEnumerator gets notification when > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SplitReaders > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> start > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> when > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> they finish splits. They can decide at that moment to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> push > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> more > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that reader > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --> The SplitEnumerator should probably be aware of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> parallelism, to build its initial distribution. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Open question: Should the source expose something > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> like > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> "host > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> preferences", so that yarn/mesos/k8s can take this into > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> account > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> when > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> selecting a node to start a TM on? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> *(5) Watermarks and event time alignment* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Watermark generation, as well as idleness, needs to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> per > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> split > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> (like > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> currently in the Kafka Source, per partition) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - It is desirable to support optional > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> event-time-alignment, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> meaning > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits that are ahead are back-pressured or temporarily > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> unsubscribed > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - I think i would be desirable to encapsulate > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermark > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> generation > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> logic > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> in watermark generators, for a separation of concerns. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> The > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermark > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> generators should run per split. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Using watermark generators would also help with > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> another > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> problem of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> suggested interface, namely supporting non-periodic > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermarks > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> efficiently. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Need a way to "dispatch" next record to different > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermark > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> generators > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Need a way to tell SplitReader to "suspend" a split > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> until a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> certain > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermark is reached (event time backpressure) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - This would in fact be not needed (and thus simpler) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> if > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> we > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> had > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SplitReader per split and may be a reason to re-open > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> discussion > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> *(6) Watermarks across splits and in the Split > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Enumerator* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - The split enumerator may need some watermark > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> awareness, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> which > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> should > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> purely based on split metadata (like create timestamp > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> file > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - If there are still more splits with overlapping > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> event > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> time > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> range > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> split reader, then that split reader should not advance > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermark > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> within the split beyond the overlap boundary. Otherwise > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> future > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> will > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> produce late data. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - One way to approach this could be that the split > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> enumerator > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> may > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> send > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermarks to the readers, and the readers cannot emit > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> watermarks > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> beyond > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that received watermark. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Many split enumerators would simply immediately send > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Long.MAX > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> out > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> leave the progress purely to the split readers. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - For event-time alignment / split back pressure, this > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> begs > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> question > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> how we can avoid deadlocks that may arise when splits > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> are > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> suspended > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> event time back pressure, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> *(7) Batch and streaming Unification* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Functionality wise, the above design should support > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> both > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Batch often (mostly) does not care about reading "in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> order" > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> generating watermarks > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --> Might use different enumerator logic that is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> more > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> locality > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> aware > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and ignores event time order > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --> Does not generate watermarks > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Would be great if bounded sources could be > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> identified > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> at > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> compile > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> time, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> so that "env.addBoundedSource(...)" is type safe and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> can > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> return a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> "BoundedDataStream". > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Possible to defer this discussion until later > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> *Miscellaneous Comments* > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Should the source have a TypeInformation for the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> produced > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> type, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> instead > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of a serializer? We need a type information in the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> stream > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> anyways, and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> can > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> derive the serializer from that. Plus, creating the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> serializer > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> should > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> respect the ExecutionConfig. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> - The TypeSerializer interface is very powerful but > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> also > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> easy to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> implement. Its purpose is to handle data super > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> efficiently, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> support > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> flexible ways of evolution, etc. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> For metadata I would suggest to look at the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> SimpleVersionedSerializer > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> instead, which is used for example for checkpoint > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> master > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> hooks, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> or for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> streaming file sink. I think that is is a good match > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> cases > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> where > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> we > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> do > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not need more than ser/deser (no copy, etc.) and don't > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> need to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> push > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> versioning out of the serialization paths for best > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> performance > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> (as in > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> TypeSerializer) > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:45 AM Kostas Kloudas < > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> k.klou...@data-artisans.com> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Biao, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the answer! > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> So given the multi-threaded readers, now we have as > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> open > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> questions: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1) How do we let the checkpoints pass through our > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> multi-threaded > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> reader > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> operator? > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 2) Do we have separate reader and source operators or > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not? In > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> strategy > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that has a separate source, the source operator has a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> parallelism of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1 > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is responsible for split recovery only. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> For the first one, given also the constraints > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> (blocking, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> finite > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> queues, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> etc), I do not have an answer yet. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> For the 2nd, I think that we should go with separate > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> operators > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source and the readers, for the following reasons: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1) This is more aligned with a potential future > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> improvement > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> where the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> split > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> discovery becomes a responsibility of the JobManager > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> readers are > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> pooling more work from the JM. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 2) The source is going to be the "single point of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> truth". > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> It > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> will > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> know > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> what > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> has been processed and what not. If the source and the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> readers > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> are a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> single > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> operator with parallelism > 1, or in general, if the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> split > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> discovery > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> done by each task individually, then: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> i) we have to have a deterministic scheme for each > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> reader to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> assign > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits to itself (e.g. mod subtaskId). This is not > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> necessarily > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> trivial > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> all sources. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> ii) each reader would have to keep a copy of all its > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> processed > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> slpits > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> iii) the state has to be a union state with a > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> non-trivial > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> merging > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> logic > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> in order to support rescaling. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Two additional points that you raised above: > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> i) The point that you raised that we need to keep all > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> (processed > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not-processed) I think is a bit of a strong > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> requirement. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> This > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> would > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> imply > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that for infinite sources the state will grow > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> indefinitely. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> This is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> problem > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> is even more pronounced if we do not have a single > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> assigns > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> splits to readers, as each reader will have its own > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> copy > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> of > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> state. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> ii) it is true that for finite sources we need to > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> somehow > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> close > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> readers when the source/split discoverer finishes. The > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> ContinuousFileReaderOperator has a work-around for > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> that. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> It is > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> not > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> elegant, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and checkpoints are not emitted after closing the > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> source, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> but > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> this, I > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> believe, is a bigger problem which requires more > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> changes > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> than > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> just > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> refactoring the source interface. > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Kostas > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> -- > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>> -- > > > >> >>>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee > > > >> >>>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >