Hi Tison, I can't join the group with shared link. Would you please add me into the group? My slack account is huangzhenqiu0825. Thank you in advance.
Best Regards Peter Huang On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 12:02 AM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Peter, > > As described above, this effort should get attention from people developing > FLIP-73 a.k.a. Executor abstractions. I recommend you to join the public > slack channel[1] for Flink Client API Enhancement and you can try to share > you detailed thoughts there. It possibly gets more concrete attentions. > > Best, > tison. > > [1] > > https://slack.com/share/IS21SJ75H/Rk8HhUly9FuEHb7oGwBZ33uL/enQtODg2MDYwNjE5MTg3LTA2MjIzNDc1M2ZjZDVlMjdlZjk1M2RkYmJhNjAwMTk2ZDZkODQ4NmY5YmI4OGRhNWJkYTViMTM1NzlmMzc4OWM > > > Peter Huang <huangzhenqiu0...@gmail.com> 于2020年1月7日周二 上午5:09写道： > > > Dear All, > > > > Happy new year! According to existing feedback from the community, we > > revised the doc with the consideration of session cluster support, and > > concrete interface changes needed and execution plan. Please take one > more > > round of review at your most convenient time. > > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aAwVjdZByA-0CHbgv16Me-vjaaDMCfhX7TzVVTuifYM/edit# > > > > > > Best Regards > > Peter Huang > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 11:29 AM Peter Huang <huangzhenqiu0...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Dian, > > > Thanks for giving us valuable feedbacks. > > > > > > 1) It's better to have a whole design for this feature > > > For the suggestion of enabling the cluster mode also session cluster, I > > > think Flink already supported it. WebSubmissionExtension already allows > > > users to start a job with the specified jar by using web UI. > > > But we need to enable the feature from CLI for both local jar, remote > > jar. > > > I will align with Yang Wang first about the details and update the > design > > > doc. > > > > > > 2) It's better to consider the convenience for users, such as debugging > > > > > > I am wondering whether we can store the exception in jobgragh > > > generation in application master. As no streaming graph can be > scheduled > > in > > > this case, there will be no more TM will be requested from FlinkRM. > > > If the AM is still running, users can still query it from CLI. As it > > > requires more change, we can get some feedback from < > aljos...@apache.org > > > > > > and @zjf...@gmail.com <zjf...@gmail.com>. > > > > > > 3) It's better to consider the impact to the stability of the cluster > > > > > > I agree with Yang Wang's opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards > > > Peter Huang > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 9:44 PM Dian Fu <dian0511...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> Sorry to jump into this discussion. Thanks everyone for the > discussion. > > >> I'm very interested in this topic although I'm not an expert in this > > part. > > >> So I'm glad to share my thoughts as following: > > >> > > >> 1) It's better to have a whole design for this feature > > >> As we know, there are two deployment modes: per-job mode and session > > >> mode. I'm wondering which mode really needs this feature. As the > design > > doc > > >> mentioned, per-job mode is more used for streaming jobs and session > > mode is > > >> usually used for batch jobs(Of course, the job types and the > deployment > > >> modes are orthogonal). Usually streaming job is only needed to be > > submitted > > >> once and it will run for days or weeks, while batch jobs will be > > submitted > > >> more frequently compared with streaming jobs. This means that maybe > > session > > >> mode also needs this feature. However, if we support this feature in > > >> session mode, the application master will become the new centralized > > >> service(which should be solved). So in this case, it's better to have > a > > >> complete design for both per-job mode and session mode. Furthermore, > > even > > >> if we can do it phase by phase, we need to have a whole picture of how > > it > > >> works in both per-job mode and session mode. > > >> > > >> 2) It's better to consider the convenience for users, such as > debugging > > >> After we finish this feature, the job graph will be compiled in the > > >> application master, which means that users cannot easily get the > > exception > > >> message synchorousely in the job client if there are problems during > the > > >> job graph compiling (especially for platform users), such as the > > resource > > >> path is incorrect, the user program itself has some problems, etc. > What > > I'm > > >> thinking is that maybe we should throw the exceptions as early as > > possible > > >> (during job submission stage). > > >> > > >> 3) It's better to consider the impact to the stability of the cluster > > >> If we perform the compiling in the application master, we should > > consider > > >> the impact of the compiling errors. Although YARN could resume the > > >> application master in case of failures, but in some case the compiling > > >> failure may be a waste of cluster resource and may impact the > stability > > the > > >> cluster and the other jobs in the cluster, such as the resource path > is > > >> incorrect, the user program itself has some problems(in this case, job > > >> failover cannot solve this kind of problems) etc. In the current > > >> implemention, the compiling errors are handled in the client side and > > there > > >> is no impact to the cluster at all. > > >> > > >> Regarding to 1), it's clearly pointed in the design doc that only > > per-job > > >> mode will be supported. However, I think it's better to also consider > > the > > >> session mode in the design doc. > > >> Regarding to 2) and 3), I have not seen related sections in the design > > >> doc. It will be good if we can cover them in the design doc. > > >> > > >> Feel free to correct me If there is anything I misunderstand. > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> Dian > > >> > > >> > > >> > 在 2019年12月27日，上午3:13，Peter Huang <huangzhenqiu0...@gmail.com> 写道： > > >> > > > >> > Hi Yang, > > >> > > > >> > I can't agree more. The effort definitely needs to align with the > > final > > >> > goal of FLIP-73. > > >> > I am thinking about whether we can achieve the goal with two phases. > > >> > > > >> > 1) Phase I > > >> > As the CLiFrontend will not be depreciated soon. We can still use > the > > >> > deployMode flag there, > > >> > pass the program info through Flink configuration, use the > > >> > ClassPathJobGraphRetriever > > >> > to generate the job graph in ClusterEntrypoints of yarn and > > Kubernetes. > > >> > > > >> > 2) Phase II > > >> > In AbstractJobClusterExecutor, the job graph is generated in the > > >> execute > > >> > function. We can still > > >> > use the deployMode in it. With deployMode = cluster, the execute > > >> function > > >> > only starts the cluster. > > >> > > > >> > When {Yarn/Kuberneates}PerJobClusterEntrypoint starts, It will start > > the > > >> > dispatch first, then we can use > > >> > a ClusterEnvironment similar to ContextEnvironment to submit the job > > >> with > > >> > jobName the local > > >> > dispatcher. For the details, we need more investigation. Let's wait > > >> > for @Aljoscha > > >> > Krettek <aljos...@apache.org> @Till Rohrmann <trohrm...@apache.org > >'s > > >> > feedback after the holiday season. > > >> > > > >> > Thank you in advance. Merry Chrismas and Happy New Year!!! > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Best Regards > > >> > Peter Huang > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Yang Wang <danrtsey...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Hi Peter, > > >> >> > > >> >> I think we need to reconsider tison's suggestion seriously. After > > >> FLIP-73, > > >> >> the deployJobCluster has > > >> >> beenmoved into `JobClusterExecutor#execute`. It should not be > > perceived > > >> >> for `CliFrontend`. That > > >> >> means the user program will *ALWAYS* be executed on client side. > This > > >> is > > >> >> the by design behavior. > > >> >> So, we could not just add `if(client mode) .. else if(cluster mode) > > >> ...` > > >> >> codes in `CliFrontend` to bypass > > >> >> the executor. We need to find a clean way to decouple executing > user > > >> >> program and deploying per-job > > >> >> cluster. Based on this, we could support to execute user program on > > >> client > > >> >> or master side. > > >> >> > > >> >> Maybe Aljoscha and Jeff could give some good suggestions. > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> Best, > > >> >> Yang > > >> >> > > >> >> Peter Huang <huangzhenqiu0...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月25日周三 上午4:03写道： > > >> >> > > >> >>> Hi Jingjing, > > >> >>> > > >> >>> The improvement proposed is a deployment option for CLI. For SQL > > based > > >> >>> Flink application, It is more convenient to use the existing model > > in > > >> >>> SqlClient in which > > >> >>> the job graph is generated within SqlClient. After adding the > > delayed > > >> job > > >> >>> graph generation, I think there is no change is needed for your > > side. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Best Regards > > >> >>> Peter Huang > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 6:01 AM jingjing bai < > > >> baijingjing7...@gmail.com> > > >> >>> wrote: > > >> >>> > > >> >>>> hi peter: > > >> >>>> we had extension SqlClent to support sql job submit in web > base > > on > > >> >>>> flink 1.9. we support submit to yarn on per job mode too. > > >> >>>> in this case, the job graph generated on client side . I > think > > >> >>> this > > >> >>>> discuss Mainly to improve api programme. but in my case , there > is > > >> no > > >> >>>> jar to upload but only a sql string . > > >> >>>> do u had more suggestion to improve for sql mode or it is > only a > > >> >>>> switch for api programme？ > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> best > > >> >>>> bai jj > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Yang Wang <danrtsey...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月18日周三 下午7:21写道： > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>> I just want to revive this discussion. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Recently, i am thinking about how to natively run flink per-job > > >> >>> cluster on > > >> >>>>> Kubernetes. > > >> >>>>> The per-job mode on Kubernetes is very different from on Yarn. > And > > >> we > > >> >>> will > > >> >>>>> have > > >> >>>>> the same deployment requirements to the client and entry point. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> 1. Flink client not always need a local jar to start a Flink > > per-job > > >> >>>>> cluster. We could > > >> >>>>> support multiple schemas. For example, file:///path/of/my.jar > > means > > >> a > > >> >>> jar > > >> >>>>> located > > >> >>>>> at client side, hdfs://myhdfs/user/myname/flink/my.jar means a > jar > > >> >>> located > > >> >>>>> at > > >> >>>>> remote hdfs, local:///path/in/image/my.jar means a jar located > at > > >> >>>>> jobmanager side. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> 2. Support running user program on master side. This also means > > the > > >> >>> entry > > >> >>>>> point > > >> >>>>> will generate the job graph on master side. We could use the > > >> >>>>> ClasspathJobGraphRetriever > > >> >>>>> or start a local Flink client to achieve this purpose. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> cc tison, Aljoscha & Kostas Do you think this is the right > > >> direction we > > >> >>>>> need to work? > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> tison <wander4...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月12日周四 下午4:48写道： > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>> A quick idea is that we separate the deployment from user > program > > >> >>> that > > >> >>>>> it > > >> >>>>>> has always been done > > >> >>>>>> outside the program. On user program executed there is always a > > >> >>>>>> ClusterClient that communicates with > > >> >>>>>> an existing cluster, remote or local. It will be another thread > > so > > >> >>> just > > >> >>>>> for > > >> >>>>>> your information. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> Best, > > >> >>>>>> tison. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> tison <wander4...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月12日周四 下午4:40写道： > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Hi Peter, > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Another concern I realized recently is that with current > > Executors > > >> >>>>>>> abstraction(FLIP-73) > > >> >>>>>>> I'm afraid that user program is designed to ALWAYS run on the > > >> >>> client > > >> >>>>>> side. > > >> >>>>>>> Specifically, > > >> >>>>>>> we deploy the job in executor when env.execute called. This > > >> >>>>> abstraction > > >> >>>>>>> possibly prevents > > >> >>>>>>> Flink runs user program on the cluster side. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> For your proposal, in this case we already compiled the > program > > >> and > > >> >>>>> run > > >> >>>>>> on > > >> >>>>>>> the client side, > > >> >>>>>>> even we deploy a cluster and retrieve job graph from program > > >> >>>>> metadata, it > > >> >>>>>>> doesn't make > > >> >>>>>>> many sense. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> cc Aljoscha & Kostas what do you think about this constraint? > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Best, > > >> >>>>>>> tison. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Peter Huang <huangzhenqiu0...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月10日周二 > > >> 下午12:45写道： > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> Hi Tison, > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> Yes, you are right. I think I made the wrong argument in the > > doc. > > >> >>>>>>>> Basically, the packaging jar problem is only for platform > > users. > > >> >>> In > > >> >>>>> our > > >> >>>>>>>> internal deploy service, > > >> >>>>>>>> we further optimized the deployment latency by letting users > to > > >> >>>>>> packaging > > >> >>>>>>>> flink-runtime together with the uber jar, so that we don't > need > > >> to > > >> >>>>>>>> consider > > >> >>>>>>>> multiple flink version > > >> >>>>>>>> support for now. In the session client mode, as Flink libs > will > > >> be > > >> >>>>>> shipped > > >> >>>>>>>> anyway as local resources of yarn. Users actually don't need > to > > >> >>>>> package > > >> >>>>>>>> those libs into job jar. > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> Best Regards > > >> >>>>>>>> Peter Huang > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 8:35 PM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> > > >> >>> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 3. What do you mean about the package? Do users need to > > >> >>> compile > > >> >>>>>> their > > >> >>>>>>>>> jars > > >> >>>>>>>>> inlcuding flink-clients, flink-optimizer, flink-table codes? > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> The answer should be no because they exist in system > > classpath. > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> Best, > > >> >>>>>>>>> tison. > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> Yang Wang <danrtsey...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月10日周二 下午12:18写道： > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Peter, > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for starting this discussion. I think this is > a > > >> >>> very > > >> >>>>>>>> useful > > >> >>>>>>>>>> feature. > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Not only for Yarn, i am focused on flink on Kubernetes > > >> >>>>> integration > > >> >>>>>> and > > >> >>>>>>>>> come > > >> >>>>>>>>>> across the same > > >> >>>>>>>>>> problem. I do not want the job graph generated on client > > side. > > >> >>>>>>>> Instead, > > >> >>>>>>>>> the > > >> >>>>>>>>>> user jars are built in > > >> >>>>>>>>>> a user-defined image. When the job manager launched, we > just > > >> >>>>> need to > > >> >>>>>>>>>> generate the job graph > > >> >>>>>>>>>> based on local user jars. > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I have some small suggestion about this. > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 1. `ProgramJobGraphRetriever` is very similar to > > >> >>>>>>>>>> `ClasspathJobGraphRetriever`, the differences > > >> >>>>>>>>>> are the former needs `ProgramMetadata` and the latter needs > > >> >>> some > > >> >>>>>>>>> arguments. > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Is it possible to > > >> >>>>>>>>>> have an unified `JobGraphRetriever` to support both? > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 2. Is it possible to not use a local user jar to start a > > >> >>> per-job > > >> >>>>>>>> cluster? > > >> >>>>>>>>>> In your case, the user jars has > > >> >>>>>>>>>> existed on hdfs already and we do need to download the jars > > to > > >> >>>>>>>> deployer > > >> >>>>>>>>>> service. Currently, we > > >> >>>>>>>>>> always need a local user jar to start a flink cluster. It > is > > >> >>> be > > >> >>>>>> great > > >> >>>>>>>> if > > >> >>>>>>>>> we > > >> >>>>>>>>>> could support remote user jars. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> In the implementation, we assume users package > > >> >>> flink-clients, > > >> >>>>>>>>>> flink-optimizer, flink-table together within the job jar. > > >> >>>>> Otherwise, > > >> >>>>>>>> the > > >> >>>>>>>>>> job graph generation within JobClusterEntryPoint will fail. > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 3. What do you mean about the package? Do users need to > > >> >>> compile > > >> >>>>>> their > > >> >>>>>>>>> jars > > >> >>>>>>>>>> inlcuding flink-clients, flink-optimizer, flink-table > codes? > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Yang > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Huang <huangzhenqiu0...@gmail.com> 于2019年12月10日周二 > > >> >>>>> 上午2:37写道： > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear All, > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Recently, the Flink community starts to improve the yarn > > >> >>>>> cluster > > >> >>>>>>>>>> descriptor > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> to make job jar and config files configurable from CLI. It > > >> >>>>>> improves > > >> >>>>>>>> the > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> flexibility of Flink deployment Yarn Per Job Mode. For > > >> >>>>> platform > > >> >>>>>>>> users > > >> >>>>>>>>>> who > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> manage tens of hundreds of streaming pipelines for the > whole > > >> >>>>> org > > >> >>>>>> or > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> company, we found the job graph generation in client-side > is > > >> >>>>>> another > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> pinpoint. Thus, we want to propose a configurable feature > > >> >>> for > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> FlinkYarnSessionCli. The feature can allow users to choose > > >> >>> the > > >> >>>>> job > > >> >>>>>>>>> graph > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> generation in Flink ClusterEntryPoint so that the job jar > > >> >>>>> doesn't > > >> >>>>>>>> need > > >> >>>>>>>>> to > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> be locally for the job graph generation. The proposal is > > >> >>>>> organized > > >> >>>>>>>> as a > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> FLIP > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>> > > >> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-85+Delayed+JobGraph+Generation > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> . > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Any questions and suggestions are welcomed. Thank you in > > >> >>>>> advance. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Huang > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >
