Hi Weihua, Just want to clarify. "client.attached.after.submission" is going to be a pure client side configuration.
On the cluster side, it is only "execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit" controlling whether the cluster will shutdown or not when an attached client is disconnected. In order to honor this configuration, the cluster needs to know if the client submitting the job is attached or not. But the cluster will not retrieve this information by reading the configuration of "client.attached.after.submission". In fact this configuration should not even be visible to the cluster. The cluster only knows if a client is attached or not when a client submits a job. Thanks, Jiangjie (Becket) Qin On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 2:35 PM Weihua Hu <huweihua....@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, Jiangjie > > Thanks for the clarification. > > My key point is the meaning of the "submission" in > "client.attached.after.submission". > At first glance, I thought only job submissions were taken into account. > After your clarification, this option also works for cluster submissions. > > It's fine for me. > > Best, > Weihua > > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 8:35 AM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Weihua, > > > > Thanks for the explanation. From the doc, it looks like the current > > behaviors of "execution.attached=true" between Yarn and K8S session > > cluster are exactly the opposite. For YARN it basically means the cluster > > will shutdown if the client disconnects. For K8S, it means the cluster > will > > not shutdown until a client explicitly stops it. This sounds like a bad > > situation to me and needs to be fixed. > > > > My guess is that the YARN behavior here is the original intended > behavior, > > while K8S reused the configuration for a different purpose. If we > deprecate > > the execution.attached config here. The behavior would be: > > > > For YARN session clusters: > > 1. Current "execution.attached=true" would be equivalent to > > "execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit=true" + > > "client.attached.after.submission=true". > > 2. Current "execution.attached=false" would be equivalent to > > "execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit=false", i.e. the cluster will keep > > running until explicitly stopped. > > > > I am not sure what the current behavior of "execution.attached=true" + > > "execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit=false" is. Supposedly, it should be > > equivalent to "execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit=false", which means > > "execution.attached" only controls the client side behavior, while the > > cluster side behavior is controlled by > > "execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit". > > > > For K8S session clusters: > > 1. Current "execution.attached=true" would be equivalent to > > "execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit=false". > > 2. Current "execution.attached=false" would be equivalent to > > "execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit=true" + > > "client.attached.after.submission=true". > > > > This will make the same config behave the same for YARN and K8S. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 11:04 PM Weihua Hu <huweihua....@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Hi, Jiangjie > > > > > > 'execution.attached' can be used to attach an existing cluster and stop > > it > > > [1][2], > > > which is not related to job submission. So does YARN session mode[3]. > > > IMO, this behavior should not be controlled by the new option > > > 'client.attached.after.submission'. > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > https://nightlies.apache.org/flink/flink-docs-master/docs/deployment/resource-providers/native_kubernetes/#session-mode > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/flink/blob/a85ffc491874ecf3410f747df3ed09f61df52ac6/flink-kubernetes/src/main/java/org/apache/flink/kubernetes/cli/KubernetesSessionCli.java#L126 > > > [3] > > > > > > > > > https://nightlies.apache.org/flink/flink-docs-master/docs/deployment/resource-providers/yarn/#session-mode > > > > > > Best, > > > Weihua > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 5:16 PM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Weihua, > > > > > > > > Just want to clarify a little bit, what is the impact of > > > > `execution.attached` on a cluster startup before a client submits a > job > > > to > > > > that cluster? Does this config only become effective after a job > > > > submission? > > > > > > > > Currently, the cluster behavior has an independent config of > > > > 'execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit'. So if a client submitted a job > > in > > > > attached mode, and this `execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit` is set > to > > > > true, the cluster will shutdown if the client detaches from the > > cluster. > > > Is > > > > this sufficient? Or do you mean we need another independent > > > configuration? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 2:20 PM Weihua Hu <huweihua....@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Jiangjie > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the late reply, I fully agree with the three user > sensible > > > > > behaviors you described. > > > > > > > > > > I would like to bring up a point. > > > > > > > > > > Currently, 'execution.attached' is not only used for submitting > jobs, > > > > > But also for starting a new cluster (YARN and Kubernetes). If it's > > > true, > > > > > the starting cluster script will > > > > > wait for the user to input the next command (quit or stop). > > > > > > > > > > In my opinion, this behavior should have an independent option > > besides > > > > > "client.attached.after.submission" for control. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Weihua > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 10:07 AM liu ron <ron9....@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Jiangjie > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your detailed explanation, I got your point. If the > > > > > > execution.attached is only used for client currently, removing it > > > also > > > > > make > > > > > > sense to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> 于2023年8月17日周四 07:37写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't the cluster (session or per job) only using the > > > > > execution.attached > > > > > > to > > > > > > > determine whether the client is attached? If so, the client can > > > > always > > > > > > > include the information of whether it's an attached client or > not > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > JobSubmissoinRequestBody, right? For a shared session cluster, > > > there > > > > > > could > > > > > > > be multiple clients submitting jobs to it. These clients may or > > may > > > > not > > > > > > be > > > > > > > attached. A static execution.attached configuration for the > > session > > > > > > cluster > > > > > > > does not work in this case, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current problem of execution.attached is that it is not > > always > > > > > > honored. > > > > > > > For example, if a session cluster was started with > > > execution.attached > > > > > set > > > > > > > to false. And a client submits a job later to that session > > cluster > > > > with > > > > > > > execution.attached set to true. In this case, the cluster won't > > > (and > > > > > > > shouldn't) shutdown after the job finishes or the attached > client > > > > loses > > > > > > > connection. So, in fact, the execution.attached configuration > is > > > only > > > > > > > honored by the client, but not the cluster. Therefore, I think > > > > removing > > > > > > it > > > > > > > makes sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 12:31 AM liu ron <ron9....@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Jiangjie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for late reply. Thank you for such a detailed response. > > As > > > > you > > > > > > say, > > > > > > > > there are three behaviours here for users and I agree with > you. > > > The > > > > > > goal > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > this FLIP is to clarify the behaviour of the client side, > > which I > > > > > also > > > > > > > > agree with. However, as weihua said, the config > > > execution.attached > > > > is > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > only for per-job mode, but also for session mode, but the > FLIP > > > says > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > this is only for per-job mode, and this config will be > removed > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > > future because the per-job mode has been deprecated. I don't > > > think > > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > correct and we should change the description in the > > corresponding > > > > > > section > > > > > > > > of the FLIP. Since execution.attached is used in session > mode, > > > > there > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > compatibility issue here if we change it directly to > > > > > > > > client.attached.after.submission, and I think we should make > > this > > > > > clear > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the FLIP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> 于2023年8月14日周一 20:33写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ron and Weihua, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There seem three user sensible behaviors that we are > talking > > > > about: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The behavior on the client side, i.e. whether blocking > > until > > > > the > > > > > > job > > > > > > > > > finishes or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The behavior of the submitted job, whether stop the job > > > > > execution > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > client is detached from the Flink cluster, i.e. whether > bind > > > the > > > > > > > > lifecycle > > > > > > > > > of the job with the connection status of the attached > client. > > > For > > > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > > one might want to keep a batch job running until finish > even > > > > after > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > client connection is lost. But it makes sense to stop the > job > > > > upon > > > > > > > client > > > > > > > > > connection lost if the job invokes collect() on a streaming > > > job. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. The behavior of the Flink cluster (JM and TMs), whether > > > > shutdown > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Flink cluster if the client is detached from the Flink > > cluster, > > > > > i.e. > > > > > > > > > whether bind the cluster lifecycle with the job lifecycle. > > For > > > > > > > dedicated > > > > > > > > > clusters (application cluster or dedicated session > clusters), > > > the > > > > > > > > lifecycle > > > > > > > > > of the cluster should be bound with the job lifecycle. But > > for > > > > > shared > > > > > > > > > session clusters, the lifecycle of the Flink cluster should > > be > > > > > > > > independent > > > > > > > > > of the jobs running in it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As we can see, these three behaviors are sort of > independent, > > > the > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > configurations fail to support all the combination of > wanted > > > > > > behaviors. > > > > > > > > > Ideally there should be three separate configurations, for > > > > example: > > > > > > > > > - client.attached.after.submission and > > client.heartbeat.timeout > > > > > > control > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > behavior on the client side. > > > > > > > > > - jobmanager.cancel-on-attached-client-exit controls the > > > behavior > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > job when an attached client lost connection. The client > > > heartbeat > > > > > > > timeout > > > > > > > > > and attach-ness will be also passed to the JM upon job > > > > submission. > > > > > > > > > - cluster.shutdown-on-first-job-finishes *(*or > > > > > > > > > jobmanager.shutdown-cluster-after-job-finishes) controls > the > > > > > cluster > > > > > > > > > behavior after the job finishes normally / abnormally. This > > is > > > a > > > > > > > cluster > > > > > > > > > level setting instead of a job level setting. Therefore it > > can > > > > only > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > set > > > > > > > > > when launching the cluster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current code sort of combines config 2 and 3 into > > > > > > > > > execution.shutdown-on-attach-exit. > > > > > > > > > This assumes the the life cycle of the cluster is the same > as > > > the > > > > > job > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > the client is attached. This FLIP does not intend to change > > > that. > > > > > but > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > the execution.attached config for the client behavior > control > > > > looks > > > > > > > > > misleading. So this FLIP proposes to replace it with a more > > > > > intuitive > > > > > > > > > config of client.attached.after.submission. This makes it > > clear > > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > a configuration controlling the client side behavior, > instead > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > execution of the job. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 10:34 PM Weihua Hu < > > > > huweihua....@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Allison > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for driving this FLIP. It's a valuable feature for > > > batch > > > > > > jobs. > > > > > > > > > > This helps keep "Drop Per-Job Mode [1]" going. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for this proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it seems that the change in this FLIP is not > > > detailed > > > > > > > enough. > > > > > > > > > > I have a few questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The config 'execution.attached' is not only used in > > > per-job > > > > > > mode, > > > > > > > > > > but also in session mode to shutdown the cluster. IMHO, > > it's > > > > > better > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > keep this option name. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. This FLIP only mentions YARN mode. I believe this > > feature > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > work in both YARN and Kubernetes mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Within the attach mode, we support two features: > > > > > > > > > > execution.shutdown-on-attached-exit > > > > > > > > > > and client.heartbeat.timeout. These should also be taken > > into > > > > > > > account. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. The Application Mode will shut down once the job has > > been > > > > > > > completed. > > > > > > > > > > So, if we use the flink client to poll job status via > REST > > > API > > > > > for > > > > > > > > attach > > > > > > > > > > mode, > > > > > > > > > > there is a chance that the client will not be able to > > > retrieve > > > > > the > > > > > > > job > > > > > > > > > > finish status. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps FLINK-24113[3] will help with this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-26000 > > > > > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://nightlies.apache.org/flink/flink-docs-master/docs/deployment/resource-providers/native_kubernetes/#session-mode > > > > > > > > > > [2]https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-24113 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > Weihua > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 10:47 AM liu ron < > > ron9....@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Allison > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for driving this proposal, it looks cool for > batch > > > > jobs > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > > application mode. But after reading your FLIP document > > and > > > > > [1], I > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > question. Why do you want to rename the > > execution.attached > > > > > > > > > configuration > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > client.attached.after.submission and at the same time > > > > deprecate > > > > > > > > > > > execution.attached? Based on your design, I understand > > the > > > > role > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > > > two options are the same. Introducing a new option > would > > > > > increase > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cost > > > > > > > > > > > of understanding and use for the user, so why not > follow > > > the > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > > > discussed > > > > > > > > > > > in FLINK-25495 and make Application mode support > > > > > > > attached.execution. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-25495 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venkatakrishnan Sowrirajan <vsowr...@asu.edu> > > 于2023年8月9日周三 > > > > > > > 02:07写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is definitely a useful feature especially for > the > > > > flink > > > > > > > batch > > > > > > > > > > > > execution workloads using flow orchestrators like > > > Airflow, > > > > > > > Azkaban, > > > > > > > > > > Oozie > > > > > > > > > > > > etc. Thanks for reviving this issue and starting a > > FLIP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Venkata krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 4:09 PM Allison Chang > > > > > > > > > > > <alch...@linkedin.com.invalid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am opening this thread to discuss this proposal > to > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > attached > > > > > > > > > > > > > execution on Flink Application Completion for Batch > > > Jobs. > > > > > The > > > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > FLIP proposal is here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-323*3A*Support*Attached*Execution*on*Flink*Application*Completion*for*Batch*Jobs__;JSsrKysrKysrKys!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!friFO6bJub5FKSLhPIzA6kv-7uffv-zXlv9ZLMKqj_xMcmZl62HhsgvwDXSCS5hfSeyHZgoAVSFg3fk7ChaAFNKi$ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This FLIP proposes adding back attached execution > for > > > > > > > Application > > > > > > > > > > Mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > > > > > > the past attached execution was supported for the > > > per-job > > > > > > mode, > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > be deprecated and we want to include this feature > > back > > > > into > > > > > > > > > > Application > > > > > > > > > > > > > mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please reply to this email thread and share your > > > > > > > > thoughts/opinions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allison Chang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
