On Mon, 2005-04-25 at 15:07 +0200, Torsten Schlabach wrote: > Thorsten, > > don't get me wrong; I fully agree to the idea to have Forrest and Lenya > move towards a common target. This will make a lot of sense if it results > in all Apache projects beeing able to easily use Lenya to maintain their > websites, for example. >
I guess the result will be a prototype of doco. ;-) > IMO we should just make sure we understand well that Lenya and Forrest > were created originally to serve quite different purposes and it only > turns out now that there seems to be *some* overlap. > Hmm, it seems that there not only have *some* overlabs but quite a lot. ...or better said lenya could have a better separation from content and presentation. Lenya is a content management system (CMS) that supports the management of content by providing tools for each phase of the content life cycle. Content Content is every multimedial content independend of form (images, text,sound,...), structure (description of the constitution of content) and development state. Content management Content management is engaged in maintenance, updating and providing of content. This will be done with tasks, which are necessary to control and manage content within its life cycle stages. Content life cycle The content life cycle assumes that the content will cross different stages from creating it to archiving it. These stages are enquiry, production, review, release, publication and archiving of content. Now you know what all the time is missing in this definition is the presentation part of the content. That is where forrest enters the stage. We had a reason thread (describe Forrest in 50 words): "Apache Forrest is a standards-based documentation framework based on Apache Cocoon. Forrest emphasizes separation of presentation and content through a plugin architecture. This architecture transforms a variety of input sources into one or more output formats, thus enabling a unified document collection that can be hosted dynamically, generated from the command-line or deployed with an automated publishing application." "...supports the management of content by providing tools for each phase of the content life cycle. ... The content life cycle assumes that the content will cross different stages from creating it to archiving it. These stages are enquiry, production, review, release, publication and archiving of content." Let's forrest do the presentation and lenya taking care of the content as CMS. > I think we should also make sure not to let this integration happen > somehow eventually but make sure we have a proper discussion and decision > upfront. ...lets discuss, I wrote to both list. ;-) :) Dave Brondsema would say "more code then talk". ;-) We had this discussions a lot, I guess now it is time to prototype something. We can always open a new brunch for this (in both projects). > Bold moves like building Lenya on top of Forrest instead of on > top of Cocoon are IMO major changes in direction that should be well > thought through before they happen. > Hmmm, why do you think that it is a major change in direction? Forrest is cocoon based and you can add any block to it, just like in original cocoon. ...and surely if we have something on what we can decide on we have to discuss it and then call a vote. > What I haven't understood yet personally is this: > > What makes an input plugin in Forrest? > > IIAC this will be hardly anyting more than a yourformat2xdoc XSLT? But in > Lenya we'd need a yourformat2xhtml XSLT, wouldn't we? > like I said in the other mail forrest 0.7 will be released very soon and *after* this release forrest internals are xhtml2 based. We will always support xdocs but from them xhtml would be the default. > I am heavily against any "internal formats" unless they add any very > specific value. KISS! (Keep it simple and straight!) Actually what do you think page2xhtml is? It is an internal format. Now imagine that all lenya input plugins will produce "page". That makes it possible to implement output plugins that will transform "page" into yourformat (pdf, inx, html, wap,...). You can say it adds all forrest (input/output) plugins as value. ;-) IMO that is *a lot*! salu2 -- thorsten "Together we stand, divided we fall!" Hey you (Pink Floyd)
