Jason Dillon wrote: > Its a sad time when members of the community are scared to state their > minds in fear of reprisal. >
Interesting comment, isn't this what started all of this to begin with? > * * * > > I was never very good at math... that is what calculators are for. :-P > > --jason > > > On Jun 29, 2006, at 2:17 PM, Aaron Mulder wrote: > >> I'd like to +1 this, but I'm too scared to due to the political >> ramifications. >> >> Yesterday, a PMC member told me that the only thing he could compare >> Gernimo to was Avalon, where certain personalities were so destructive >> that someone was kicked out of Apache altogether. >> >> You do the math. >> >> Thanks, >> Aaron >> >> On 6/29/06, Jason Dillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> NOTE: My comments below are not directed towards anyone in >>> particular... mostly this just expresses my frustration with some of >>> the more harmful politics that Apache Geronimo has picked up over the >>> past few months... >>> >>> > Although RTC has slowed down development a bit (or even more), it >>> > will pay off very >>> > soon. >>> >>> I think "slowed down development a bit (or even more)" is an >>> understatement. I believe that RTC has the development team running >>> through molasses. And in some cases has caused some patches and >>> issues to get stuck in the tar. Not really the types of things you >>> want from a vibrant, active and positive community. >>> >>> >>> > We need to be very patient until more committers become PMC >>> > members and their votes are binding. >>> >>> This will not remedy the fact that RTC rules dictate that patches >>> must be applied and tested before a +1 can be given, which normally >>> would have happened once when the *trusted* developer has applied the >>> patch. But now we need a gang of people to apply the patch, which >>> usually means dropping any other work they were doing to get a clean >>> tree and then apply the patch, pray that the build succeeds in a >>> reasonable amount of time, running through a test case or two and >>> then blowing it all away to get back to the work that they were >>> actually doing before. >>> >>> I fail to see how this will increase anything but frustration of >>> developers to have to jump through those hoops to get changes >>> made.... maybe it will increase communication about how frustrating >>> RTC is though ;-) >>> >>> >>> > Painful, but in the end it might boost development significantly. >>> >>> How will this boost anything? >>> >>> >>> > AFAIUI, the whole point of RTC is to ensure communication through >>> > dev/user mailing lists rather than in closed circles. >>> >>> I don't understand how, dropping what I am working on, applying >>> patches, running tests and then coaxing the few PMC members with >>> votes will ensure more communication. In may respects I think it >>> actually hinders communication, as people will just shy away from >>> applying changes or from proposing to make new changes. RTC, IMO is >>> the road to complacency. >>> >>> >>> >> It would seem to me that the process for RTC would be to send an >>> >> RTC about the Maven 1 -> 2 >>> >> conversion with some preliminary ideas. >>> >>> I'm confused now... how can one send a RTC w/o having a patch or >>> patches for others to review? >>> >>> * * * >>> >>> RTC is crippling Apache Geronimo's ability to become a vibrant player >>> in the app-server space. RTC has made us a Red Tape Community, where >>> it takes weeks to get trivial changes implemented. >>> >>> The problem is made worse by the fact that most of the PMC members >>> who we are supposed to coax into following RTC and voting in the >>> changes are simply not available. Not all of them mind you, but out >>> of 10 PMC members I can only think of a few who have had time or >>> desire to participate in the RTC and actually give their binding >>> votes. IMO the only way that RTC could possibly with is if the PMC >>> members drop anything else they are working on and devote their time >>> to applying patches, building and testing... BUT, I don't see that >>> happening. The people who are actually doing the work are for the >>> most part not PMC members. The people who are actually applying >>> these patches are not PMC members. Lucky enough though, I think that >>> there are at least 3 PMC members who are being active, so there is a >>> shot for us to get work done... its just going to be really slow >>> moving. At this rate, maybe we will have EJB3 support out by the >>> time that EJB4 is dominant... or get out build working on m2 by the >>> time m3 is out... >>> >>> :-\ >>> >>> --jason >>>
