Erik B. Craig wrote:
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Hernan Cunico <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Migration samples should definitively not go into svn because the
source environment, the start point for those apps is intended to be
a different platform, not Geronimo. There would be no point in
keeping them into svn and adding them as a part of the release process.
The idea behind this is that we should have relevant migration apps from
version X of "JEE Application Server" to Version Y of Geronimo available
very near or at the release of Geronimo version Y. It is incredibly
painful attempting to keep migration samples relatively consistent and
up to date when not in svn repository, because as is making changes
requires downloading the older zip file, extracting it, adding it to
eclipse, making changes, deleting the eclipse project files and making
sure there are no binaries present, and then re-creating the zip and
uploading it to wiki.
On top of these pains, it makes it very difficult to track changes made
to migration sample apps and we start running into potential legal
issues by the possibility of hosting binaries that should not be there.
I ran into a number of questionable pieces that I removed when cleaning
up and checking in the migration samples for server version 1.0.
This is the thing. The issue is not the sample apps. but the approach to cover migration.
( and here everybody has its own "best" way to do the things ;-) )
I personally think that migration from "A" to "B" should be entirely ruled (not driven) by "A". I believe that migration should primarily be a document with some samples to support such document. Such samples should ideally be developed for/by "A" to highlight their own features and implementations. People using platform "A" may use those samples as the blueprints for developing their own applications. I think focusing around those samples (developed for/by "A") is where we get the biggest bang.
When those apps are not available we come up with our own for "A" and then use them to support our migration
procedure. These are the docs that could potentially make it to svn but we should treat them as "foreign" and
make sure they are up-to-date and relevant to platform "A" and not "B". These samples would not run
on Geronimo until you migrate them following the procedures in the doc.
Does that makes sense?
Cheers!
Hernan
However there are a whole bunch of other sample apps in the doc and
are G specific and those are the ones we are discussing here. Or I
need to start reading the whole thread again :P
Like jason has said, there are really two different sample app types,
both of which we need to come to a clear decision on.
Cheers!
Hernan
Jason Warner wrote:
> I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, so I'll throw it in
here. So
> far, it seems that when we've been discussing samples, we're
lumping the
> sample applications and the migration samples in together. Is this
> something we want to do? In my mind, they aren't really the same and
> shouldn't necessarily be in the same place. AFAIK, a sample
application
> is supposed to be able to be checked out, built, and deployed on
> geronimo straight away to highlight some feature or
functionality. The
> migration samples, though, are meant to be fiddled with before
they can
> be deployed on Geronimo. If we lump them all in together, how is
a user
> supposed to know which is which when browsing svn? Would it make
sense
> to keep the migration samples in a separate space?
>
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Hernan Cunico <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>
> David Jencks wrote:
> >
> > On Mar 13, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:
> >
> >> Joe Bohn wrote:
> >>> David Jencks wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mar 12, 2008, at 7:12 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Donald Woods wrote:
> >>>>>> Joe Bohn wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 2) When to release the samples? I think we should
make an
> effort
> >>>>>>> to release the samples concurrent with each Geronimo
release.
> >>>>>>> This is important because the jsp & servlet examples are
> >>>>>>> referenced from within the welcome page on Geronimo.
I suppose
> >>>>>>> we could remove that reference and eliminate the need to
> release
> >>>>>>> concurrently.
> >>>>>> why not move the samples back under geronimo/server,
so they are
> >>>>>> maintained and versioned with each release and can
then be
> used as
> >>>>>> additional testsuite tests? If not, releasing right
after a
> >>>>>> server release is fine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I was thinking about doing this. It seems everybody
thinks we
> >>>>> should release them together anyway so what is the
real value
> with
> >>>>> them being split out? Does anybody object to moving them
> back with
> >>>>> the server?
> >>>>
> >>>> well, since I thought our next goal with the server
build was to
> >>>> separate it into independently released plugins, I think
> putting the
> >>>> samples in with the main server build would be a big step
> backwards.
> >>> Well, I agree that it would appear to be a step
backwards from that
> >>> perspective. However, it would ensure the following:
> >>> 1) The samples would get released (not forgotten as has been
> the case
> >>> with 2.1)
> >>> 2) The samples would be released concurrent with the
Geronimo
> release
> >>> so that they are available for use, education, and
> documentation from
> >>> day 1. It seems almost everybody is in favor of this.
> >>> 3) They could be leveraged in the testsuite tests (as Donald
> pointed
> >>> out) to help validate our build and find problems earlier.
> >>> I fail to see too many negatives from a practical
perspective
> but I'm
> >>> certainly open to discussion .... I want to do what is best.
> >>> Perhaps we need to refine our plugin strategy. There are
> situations
> >>> where it makes sense to split things apart but there are
also
> >>> situations where it might make sense to bundle things.
> >>> Joe
> >>
> >> Would those folks that feel strongly about not pulling
these samples
> >> back into the server repo please provide some rationale
for their
> >> argument as I have done for including them? It appears
that the
> >> samples were removed without much thought given to how
they might
> >> eventually be released in conjunction with a server
release. I like
> >> the idea of modularity but in this case I don't see clear
> benefits to
> >> keeping them separate.
> >>
> >> Please keep in mind that including the samples in the
server source
> >> branch and releasing them concurrent with the server does
not mean
> >> that they are bundled with the server. They are still
independent
> >> artifacts. However, it would ensure that they are vetted
with the
> >> server release and are available when the server release is
> >> available. The samples are really only there to show
value on
> top of
> >> a Geronimo server and they are tied to a specific server
release (at
> >> least that is how we have managed and documented them
thus far) so
> >> having released independent of the server doesn't appear to
> bring any
> >> value.
> >>
> >> I looked back through a number of old email threads and these
> samples
> >> were included in the welcome page with a lot of support
at the time
> >> (with a desire to have even more samples included or
> downloadable from
> >> the welcome page) ... several folks stating that they
should be
> >> included with the server image itself. I certainly don't
want to
> >> bundle the samples with the server image but having the
released
> with
> >> the server makes sense to me.
> >
> > I'm speculating a bit here.
> >
> > This might be similar to the testsuite being a bit monolithic.
> >
> > As a thought experiment, what if we...
> > - made the welcome page a plugin, and the piece of build
including it
> > also builds the samples
> > - the maven generated site includes the stuff you need to
> download (zips
> > etc) (I think this is doable)
>
> Are we using any maven site today? what type of info goes
there? who
> consumes it?
>
> .zip samples download shouldn't be any different from the other
> downloads we have, right?
>
> Cheers!
> Hernan
>
> > - the welcome page links to the maven generated site
> > - this leaves the door open to making the welcome page +
samples
> > independently versioned in the future, and possibly to
selenium
> testing.
> >
> > - we split up the testsuite into integration tests for
"plugins" or
> > plugin groups, and they assemble the servers they need on
the fly
> >
> > - assemblies may or may not include the welcome page plugin.
> >
> > dunno how practical this is for 2.1.1
> >
> > thanks
> > david jencks
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> ~Jason Warner
--
Erik B. Craig
