Hi Leonard,
Leonard Mada wrote:
Ingrid Halama wrote:
Maybe you are not aware that the Chart offers an UNO API (see
::om::sun::star::chart )? You can access this API via OpenOffice.org
Basic macros for example and thus automate tasks (see
http://api.openoffice.org/docs/DevelopersGuide/DevelopersGuide.pdf for
more details).
-- only a limited number of programmers can do this
This is always the case. Having a scripting language people need to
learn that first also. And they need to be willing to share their
results and they need to be able to share their results. So providing
a scripting language does not heal all problems.
e.g. Can I build with the UNO API in a number of minutes a Venn diagram?
... or some other custom plot?
> I am afraid, this is NOT the case.
You cannot do this because the basic functionality for this chart type
is missing and not because of missing scripting support.
If you are willing to write a script that takes some data from somewhere
and generates some special drawing shapes dependent on that data - go
ahead. You are free to do this. Use the Calc UNO API to get the data for
example and use the Draw UNO API to generate the visual output. Than
others can use your script to create a Venn diagram in a five minute action.
So what are you expecting from the chart? Do you want to be able to
change more aspects of the existing chart types? If so, which? Or do you
want to be able to write completely new chart types? If so, do you want
to implement a new coordinate system with new axis also? Or would you be
fine with having some standard coordinate systems or maybe just the 2D
cartesian coordinate system provided by the chart? Would you like to
implement a time axis by yourself? Or do you think that this is a basic
functionality that should be provided by the OpenOffice Chart? Would you
be fine having the possibility to place pixels or lines or boxes in a 2D
diagram parameterized by logic coordinates with a macro or an extension?
Would you like to be able to select a script that is associated with a
chart and executed on each new chart rendering (for example when the
size changes)? Are you missing this most hardly?
- as I mentioned, there are over 500 packages available for R (mostly
developed by independent groups using the R-language)
- gnuplot:: there are 649,997 downloads only from
http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=gnuplot
- asymptote: 23,631 downloads, see
http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=asymptote
-- this is quite a powerful descriptive vector graphics language for
technical drawing, I highly recommend to take a look at it
Yes, sure, there are more specialized programs that offer more.
Again I would like to know what you expect from OpenOffice.org Chart
when you are fine with the already existing specialized software? What
are you missing with that highly specialized software?
All these programs have simple drawing commands, like plot() or draw()
and I do not need to learn complex UNO APIs.
- I can sit down and write in 5 minutes a script that will solve a
particular problem, e.g. draw a very unusual graphic/ chart
Maybe it's because you know this scripting language already. I doubt
that all people will only need 5 minutes for that.
- and do not need to ask OOo to implement that particular type of Chart
- the (mathematical, statistical) professionals will continue to use
these programs, so why not *win their help* for OOo
- and let *them* write new /extend existing features
As said above, you can generate your own visual output as you like with
the UNO API of the Draw. So the question remains which kind of
integration you want with the existing Chart.
-- it takes eons to implement a new feature
Be fair. This highly depends on the feature itself, on the current
state of the affected code and on the availability of resources.
I see features pending for years. What chance has a very fancy feature
to be implemented? It usually gets a WONTFIX. There are even popular
requests not implemented yet.
Having the users writing their scripts also avoids the need for
resources. BUT, for this to work, the scripting must be plain easy and
familiar. I believe plot() is easier to understand than
::com::sun::star::chart.
Everything is about the choice. I currently have no choice but to learn
the (quite limited) UNO APIs. If a scripting engine would be implemented
like that in gnuplot, R, or asymptote (which are by the ways very
similar), I do have choices. And chances are great that many will know
already a lot of those languages. I have added on the chart wiki page a
great number of chart-types (please follow the links there, see
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Chart2): these charts were all
done in R, and most did not require implementing a fancy new feature in
R, but were rather done using existing R-scripting (as an R package).
So you are asking for implementing the R scripting language for
OpenOffice Chart? Thus all who know R can easily switch. Hm. Interesting
idea. Maybe you want to help with considering the problems and
possibilities, working out the details and implementing that? Any
volunteers?
Please provide more specific use cases. I asume you don't want just a
clone of R or gnuplot, otherwise you just could use them. So it's hard
to estimate what you are asking for.
I do use R-extensively. I have some limited knowledge of gnuplot, too.
What I miss is the ability to code easily my own type of chart. IF it is
not present in Chart, I do not have any possibility to make it.
That is not true. See above.
In R
(and asymptote), I would have simply written some plot() directives and
created my custom chart type. (for R actually I probably would have
searched an existing package, chances are high that the work has already
been done).
It is also much about resources. Why reinvent the wheel? Sometimes we
may need a square wheel, but most of the time the time proven round
wheel will be far superior. Some of the languages mentioned are mature
and very robust.
The main issue is, that without such effective drawing directives, the
OOo team is stuck *to implement any requested feature* on its own, while
following my suggestion, this work would be largely done by the users
themselves (and other professionals not necessarily affiliated with OOo).
Yes. But first there is effort to offer those possibilites! They have to
be defined very carefully and checked for consistence with the existing
feature set. Again, are there any volunteers?
I hope that the developers take a careful look at this more global
approach. Having the developers split on thousands of open source
projects and copying a feature from one product to the next won't help
the open source community.
But aren't you requesting exactly that? OpenOffice Chart should
implement the R scripting language?
Kind Regards,
Ingrid
Sincerely,
Leonard Mada
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