Hi all, I've updated the sandbox a bit = a less revolutionary menu, and a sitemap with some more fixes to generic files. http://people.apache.org/~nadinem/docs/
The changes for sitemap and others are taken from http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2688 I feel the sitemap needs improvement, but it seems a good starting point. Cheers, Nadya >-----Original Message----- >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:54 PM >To: dev@harmony.apache.org >Subject: Re: [doc][user experience] minor improvements to website >navigation and content > >On the 0x23E day of Apache Harmony Alexei Fedotov wrote: >> Nadya, >> I'm speaking about a starting page. In other words, what a user gets >> when he accesses http://harmony.apache.org. >> >> Many arguments in this thread are tainted with excessive Apache >> knowledge: for example, people outside Apache don't know about JIRA >> issues - they still refer to program defects as bugs. >> >> If we accepted the point that the starting page is for a newbie, then >> no longer the most popular argument from this thread would work: *I* >> want to have the following on the first page. >> >> When I think of the project page I recall the first time I have >> visited Ant page to download the tool and start using it. At that >> moment Ant start page was perfect - it contained only one "Download" >> link and only one "Documentation" link. I never visited other links. >> >> Why I want to be friendly to a newbie, and not Salikh or Egor? Salikh >> and Egor could bookmark the pages they like, such as documentation >> map. A confused newbie just leaves for another alternative and we >> loose a potential contributor (or at least a bug from him). > >* Download >* Documentation >* Site Map >How about three links then? > >> If we want to address our needs, this could be done at >> http://harmony.apache.org/dev/. We can put there latest CruiseControl >> news and hot JIRA issues. >> >> I suggest taking decision about target audience first, and only then >> decide what to put on the first page. >> >> I've just tried to show the first pages of different Apache projects >> to my little daughter crawling around. I expected to compare "Wow" >> effect, but she quickly lost any interest and decided to go to bed >> finally. >> >> Any community exists while it is able to reproduce itself. I believe >> having something cool for students on the right pane of the first >> page, such as announcement of VM coding contest, invitation to Harmony >> summer camp, or introductory flash movie would be great. :-) > >yeah. a lot of happy faces of students developing DRLVM JIT internals >during winter camp in Siberia, that's what we definitely need on the >right pane. > >What can attract more than dev tasks on Harmony? I dunno. > >> On 12/12/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > Alexei, >> > I am afraid I don't quite follow you. Are you speaking about the menu >or >> > the starting page? >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Nadya >> > >> > >> > >-----Original Message----- >> > >From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:11 PM >> > >To: dev@harmony.apache.org >> > >Subject: Re: [doc][user experience] minor improvements to website >> > >navigation and content >> > > >> > >Folks, >> > >Let's decide on general things first. >> > > >> > > * Who is the main customer of the first page. I assume he is a >> > >newcomer who doesn't know what DRL of build-test framework mean. >> > > >> > >For a newcomer any specifc abbreviation such as DRLVM or build-test >> > >framework just leads to a confusion. If I'm a user, I usually do the >> > >following: >> > > * download the product >> > > * check license >> > > * ask questions on dev@ list if the question is not answered in FAQ >> > >or a user guide >> > > * file a bug if somethings doesn't work (issue is much less specific >> > >qord for that) >> > > >> > >If I'm a developer, I just need to read documentation first. If I >> > >don't do this, and start contributing, than probably it won't be a >> > >high quality contribution. >> > > >> > >That's all I suggest to put to the first page. More information IMHO >> > >would just make a newcomer life more complex, so he probably won't >> > >come to our web site next time. >> > > >> > > >> > >On 12 Dec 2006 20:28:33 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: >> > >> On the 0x23D day of Apache Harmony Salikh Zakirov wrote: >> > >> > Morozova, Nadezhda wrote: >> > >> > > Hi, >> > >> > > More responses below. >> > >> > >> > >> > Nadya, could you please be more careful with quoting? >> > >> > Broken quotation lines make it hard to understand who wrote what. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> (-) Renaming "Mailing lists" -> "Subscribe" ("subscribe" is >less >> > >> > >> informative) >> > >> > > -1 disagree. I tried to make this group of links more visitor- >> > >oriented, >> > >> > > add simple typical action verbs. It seems more important than >the >> > >> > > abstract "lists" group. >> > >> > >> > >> > I do not oppose using verbs. What I do oppose is reducing the >> > amount of >> > >> > information transferred by the titles. >> > >> > "Subscribe to mailing list" would sound good to me. >> > >> >> > >> +1 >> > >> >> > >> > Short "subscribe" does not explain what do you subscribe to: >> > >> > discussion, project announcements, product offers? Or maybe even >> > online >> > >support >> > >> > contract? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> (-) The section "In the project" has no clearly defined subject >> > and >> > >> > >> looks like a heap of links randomly collected together. >> > >> > > 0. hesitant. I don't know - I've tried to group the links for >> > those >> > >> > > already in the project. The problem with some pages there - >> > they're >> > >not >> > >> > > as good as they should be. Suggestions welcome. >> > >> > >> > >> > The obvious suggestion would be keep old classification >"Community" >> > and >> > >> > "Development". These section titles explained link grouping well. >> > >> > If the new titles are not as good as we want it to be, why change >> > at >> > >all? >> > >> >> > >> I do not like synthetic grouping either >> > >> >> > >> > >> (-) Moving "Downloads" from "General" section to "Get involved" >> > >> > >> section. Most of our users are not going to be involved. They >> > would >> > >> > >> just want to download and use the JDK/JRE. >> > >> > > 0. reluctant. I'd prefer to keep General focused on the project, >> > on >> > >> > > people and policy and goals. And I am not sure we have too many >> > users >> > >> > > who want the JDK and won't be involved at all :) >> > >> > >> > >> > _Downloading_ is not related to _getting involved_. >> > >> > What I would like to see in the navigation pane is logical >clarity, >> > >> > so that I need not scan link titles after reading the section >title >> > >> > and deciding that it has nothing to do with my need. >> > >> > >> > >> > If we put "download" link into "getting involved" section, I would >> > miss >> > >> > this link on the first glance, because I do not perceive them as >> > >related. >> > >> > Putting "download" link to "general" section would solve this >> > problem >> > >for me. >> > >> >> > >> Does not matter for me. Should be on the first page, that's true. I >> > >> usually search "Download" on unknown websites by typing :) >> > >> >> > >> > >> (-) Renaming navigation subsection "Community" -> "Get >> > involved". It >> > >> > >> now duplicates with the page title, and does not provide a >> > logical >> > >> > >> explanation of what links are listed in the section. >> > >> > >> "Community" was explaining the group of links better. >> > >> > >> > >> > > 0. hesitant. Community is more like people inside, and get >> > involved >> > >is >> > >> > > more like resources for people outside. Just my opinion. >> > >> > >> > >> > I do not feel strongly about this point. Duplicated title does not >> > look >> > >nice >> > >> > though. >> > >> >> > >> hm. Nadya, both developers and users should be considered as >> > >> "inside". These two armies form the community. Separation seems like >> > >> not the spirit of opensource (imho) >> > >> >> > >> > One more idea: change the "Subcomponents" section name to >> > >"Documentation", and >> > >> > move all other documentation related links there, like this: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Documentation >> > >> > >> > >> > * Class library >> > >> > * DRLVM >> > >> > * Build-test framework >> > >> > * Harmony Development Kit >> > >> > * Detailed documentation map >> > >> >> > >> good idea! >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> Egor Pasko >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > >-- >> > >With best regards, >> > >Alexei, >> > >ESSD, Intel >> > >> >> >> -- >> With best regards, >> Alexei, >> ESSD, Intel >> > >-- >Egor Pasko
