Hi Jimmy, How about we give different snapshots for different famous application like HarmonySelect-Tomcat-snapshot, HarmonySelect-Hadoop-sanpshot... When a application is fully tested, we can make a special jre for it. Any comments?
2010/5/27 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firep...@gmail.com>: > Hi Alexei, > > That is very kind of you to remind the risk of this proposal, really > appreciate! > Yes we'd learn a lot from Alexey Petrenko's great work. Why a > successful combination with harmony don't catch customers' eyes? Was its > footprint a bit large? Or it performance cannot compete with other JREs? Was > it too unstable to use? Or just we don't continue to support? All these > questions we may find solutions. For an example, we may publish a new > customized jre/combination in every milestone to show our continuous support > to these applications - these may take a little time to run testcases before > every release, no big effort . > Our ultimate goals is to attract customers to our Harmony project, so > work with some real and hot applications may be a good way - to make a > "select" jre for different requirements. Currently, many java projects, like > Hadoop etc, use Oracle/Sun's jre as the default choice ( which is stated in > their document). Different from Alexey Petrenko's previous select, we'd > think about a more flexible, different way, even go a little far beyond > spec if that should meet more requirements - we are very free in this > harmony-select. I imagine one day, Hadoop, tomcat and other projects will > announce Harmony/Harmony-Select as its default JRE, which will be smaller, > faster and more stable for the specific program. > > Thank you very much Alexei, that is a warm help to me and this > proposal. Now can understand this is really not an easy way and may cost > more than I think. But I believe we'd keep going with Harmony - see how far > we can explore :) > > 2010/5/26 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedo...@gmail.com> > >> I saw how Jimmy's idea appeared among GSoC tasks last year. >> Persistence is an important component of success, and Jimmy has shown >> enough. Why should anyone want to stop him from trying? >> >> The whole point of public discussion is to collect different opinions >> and get in touch with public experience. "If I have seen a little >> further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." I just want >> Jimmy to consider Alexey Petrenko's shoulders. >> >> >> >> >> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.elli...@gmail.com>: >> > On 26/May/2010 11:56, Alexei Fedotov wrote: >> >> I agree that Alexey Petrenko idea to bundle projects was very >> >> successful. IMHO, unlike ideas open source projects evolve in time, >> >> and those ones which are dropped and no longer maintained hardly are >> >> successful. >> > >> > You are right to point it out, and I'm sure you'll agree it is not a >> > reason to stop the next person with enthusiasm from trying :-) >> > >> >> From the bright side, one gets a unique opportunity to bring a new >> >> life to these projects [1], [2] and, maybe, learn few lessons. >> >> >> >> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/ >> >> [2] http://harmony.apache.org/bundles.html#Tomcat >> > >> > Yes, indeed. If Alexey is still reading the list his input would be >> > most welcomed. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Tim >> > >> >> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.elli...@gmail.com>: >> >>> On 26/May/2010 09:31, Alexei Fedotov wrote: >> >>>> JFYI, Alexey Petrenko & company created select builds for Tomcat and >> >>>> Eclipse. What will make your approach more successful? >> >>> I happen to think that the work Alexey & company did was very useful >> and >> >>> was successful. You will recall that Eclipse were distributing an >> early >> >>> Harmony runtime milestone build bundled with Eclipse from their booth >> at >> >>> JavaOne. >> >>> >> >>> Demonstrating the success of Harmony with Eclipse and Tomcat, and >> >>> forming parts of other projects helps promote the Harmony project as a >> >>> source of solid technology. >> >>> >> >>> Harmony Select is a bit different since the proposal is to 'select' >> >>> those modules that can be combined into a viable runtime based on the >> >>> Harmony technology. Hadoop is an interesting example since there are >> >>> likely customizations and optimizations we can perform in the runtime >> >>> that play to Hadoop's strengths. However, until we get these examples >> >>> working it won't be obvious which enhancements make sense. >> >>> >> >>> Experimenting with a variety of runtimes derived from Harmony >> technology >> >>> is great. There is an interesting challenge in figuring out what we >> can >> >>> do with this code, and how we can make it adaptable to a variety of >> >>> consumers, though I would be very keen to ensure all our snapshots are >> >>> based off a common code base so that bug fixing for one gives the >> >>> benefit to all of them. >> >>> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> Tim >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> 2010/5/26 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firep...@gmail.com>: >> >>>>> Hi Alexei Fedotov, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I don't know Alexey Petrenko's experiment, interested in that, >> please >> >>>>> tell us if you have more information. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I agree whole cycle of application support should be very great >> for >> >>>>> the applications - but it sounds like some commercial activities >> rather than >> >>>>> open source development. However for open source projects, I believe >> it will >> >>>>> be a great if we can support some real application or even become >> their >> >>>>> default JRE, especially some hot open source Apps, as eclipse + >> Harmony, or >> >>>>> Harmony in Android/WebOS, though they use different VM and don't come >> back >> >>>>> much any more ;) . >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I don't have any particular customers in mind, just think we'd >> look >> >>>>> for a different and flexible solution for various of applications. >> What do >> >>>>> you think? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedo...@gmail.com> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Jimmy, why are you doing these select builds? Alexey Petrenko have >> >>>>>> shown that even the finest bundling won't make Harmony more popular. >> >>>>>> People these days want usability and the whole cycle of application >> >>>>>> support. Do you have a particular customer in mind? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, >> >>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, >> >>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/ >> >>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/ >> >>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedo...@gmail.com>: >> >>>>>>> Hadoop is an interesting choice, because it is used for application >> >>>>>>> hosting. Though much more common choice would be Tomcat or Jetty. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, >> >>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, >> >>>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/ >> >>>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/ >> >>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/ >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Jimmy,Jing Lv < >> firep...@gmail.com> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> We are very close to publish Harmony5 M14 and Harmony6 M2, >> what >> >>>>>> great >> >>>>>>>> achievements since we created Harmony project! >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Now we may think about something different, satisfy more >> >>>>>> requirements. >> >>>>>>>> Different application requirement need different JRE - it may >> differ >> >>>>>> very >> >>>>>>>> much in class-lib modules, providers, and VMs. Harmony select, >> say, a >> >>>>>>>> smaller, more flexible harmony runtime, may be a good candidate in >> such >> >>>>>>>> environments. We may not follow Oracle/Sun exactly in this >> runtime, >> >>>>>> allow >> >>>>>>>> more innovations, different modules selections, and different >> >>>>>>>> functionalities to meet different requirements. We may also call >> for >> >>>>>> more >> >>>>>>>> input from real Java applications, developers, especially hot >> >>>>>> open-source >> >>>>>>>> projects who are the potential customers of Harmony. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> We've already created an initial target in Harmony to build a >> >>>>>> Select >> >>>>>>>> binary. We remove some client-side related modules (like AWT, >> swing etc) >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>> reduce the size while keep the main functionality for server side >> >>>>>>>> applications. This is a startup, very far from the finial >> versions. >> >>>>>> However >> >>>>>>>> I believe we can start some milestones with defined criterion like >> >>>>>> standard >> >>>>>>>> Harmony. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> For the first milestone of Harmony-Select, I suggest we'd >> have >> >>>>>>>> following criterion: >> >>>>>>>> 1. build pass on both windows/linux platforms; >> >>>>>>>> 2. pass all Harmony unit testcases in the selected module on these >> >>>>>>>> platforms; >> >>>>>>>> 3. Choose Apache Hadoop as a real Application test, pass its >> common test >> >>>>>> on >> >>>>>>>> these platforms for the first milestone. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Wait for any kindly suggestions, opinions and comments. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Best Regards! >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Best Regards! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv >> >>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM >> >>>>> >> >> >> > >> > > > > -- > > Best Regards! > > Jimmy, Jing Lv > China Software Development Lab, IBM > -- Regards, Ray Chen
