This feature can be marked experimental due to some limitations such as
security.

Your previous round of comments have been addressed.
Command line tool has gone through:

HBASE-16620 Fix backup command-line tool usability issues
HBASE-16655 hbase backup describe with incorrect backup id results in NPE

The updated doc has been attached to HBASE-16574.

Cheers

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 7:43 AM, Ted Yu <yuzhih...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Are there more (review) comments ?
> >
> >
> Are outstanding comments addressed?
>
> I don't see answer to my 'is this experimental/will it be marked
> experimental' question.
>
> I ran into some issues trying to use the feature and suggested that a
> feature likes this needs polish else it'll just rot, unused. Has polish
> been applied? All ready for another 'user' test? Suggest that you update
> here going forward for the benefit of those trying to follow along and who
> are not watching JIRA change fly-by.
>
> It looks like doc got a revision -- I have to check -- to take on
> suggestion made above but again, suggest, that this thread gets updated.
>
> Thanks,
> St.Ack
>
>
>
> > Thanks
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Devaraj Das <d...@hortonworks.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Just reviving this thread. Thanks Sean, Stack, Dima, and others for the
> > > thorough reviews and testing. Thanks Ted and Vlad for taking care of
> the
> > > feedback. Are we all good to do the merge now? Rather do sooner than
> > later.
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: saint....@gmail.com <saint....@gmail.com> on behalf of Stack <
> > > st...@duboce.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 1:18 PM
> > > To: HBase Dev List
> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Merge Backup / Restore - Branch HBASE-7912
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Ted Yu <yuzhih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Mega patch (rev 18) is on HBASE-14123.
> > > >
> > > > Please comment on HBASE-14123 on how you want to review.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah. That was my lost tab. Last rb was 6 months ago. Suggest updating
> > it.
> > > RB is pretty good for review. Patch is only 1.5M so should be fine.
> > >
> > > St.Ack
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On review of the 'patch', do I just compare the branch to master or
> > is
> > > > > there a megapatch posted somewhere (I think I saw one but it seemed
> > > stale
> > > > > and then I 'lost' the tab). Sorry for dumb question.
> > > > > St.Ack
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Late to the game. A few comments after rereading this thread as a
> > > > 'user'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > + Before merge, a user-facing feature like this should work (If
> > this
> > > is
> > > > > "higher-bar
> > > > > > for new features", bring it on -- smile).
> > > > > > + As a user, I tried the branch with tools after reviewing the
> > > > > just-posted
> > > > > > doc. I had an 'interesting' experience (left comments up on
> > issue). I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > the tooling/doc. important to get right. If it breaks easily or
> is
> > > > > > inconsistent (or lacks 'polish'), operators will judge the whole
> > > > > > backup/restore tooling chain as not trustworthy and abandon it.
> > Lets
> > > > not
> > > > > > have this happen to this feature.
> > > > > > + Matteo's suggestion (with a helpful starter list) that there
> > needs
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > explicit qualification on what is actually being delivered --
> > > > including a
> > > > > > listing of limitations (some look serious such as data bleed from
> > > other
> > > > > > regions in WALs, but maybe I don't care for my use case...) --
> > needs
> > > to
> > > > > > accompany the merge. Lets fold them into the user doc. in the
> > > technical
> > > > > > overview area as suggested so user expectations are properly
> > managed
> > > > > > (otherwise, they expect the world and will just give up when we
> > fall
> > > > > > short). Vladimir did a list of what is in each of the phases
> above
> > > > which
> > > > > > would serve as a good start.
> > > > > > + Is this feature 'experimental' (Matteo asks above). I'd prefer
> it
> > > is
> > > > > > not. If it is, it should be labelled all over that it is so. I
> see
> > > > > current
> > > > > > state called out as a '... technical preview feature'. Does this
> > mean
> > > > > > not-for-users?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > St.Ack
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:03 AM, Ted Yu <yuzhih...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Sean:
> > > > > >> Do you have more comments ?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Cheers
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Vladimir Rodionov <
> > > > > vladrodio...@gmail.com
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > Sean,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Backup/Restore can fail due to various reasons: network outage
> > > > > (cluster
> > > > > >> > wide), various time-outs in HBase and HDFS layer, M/R failure
> > due
> > > to
> > > > > >> "HDFS
> > > > > >> > exceeded quota", user error (manual deletion of data) and so
> on
> > so
> > > > on.
> > > > > >> That
> > > > > >> > is impossible to enumerate all possible types of failures in a
> > > > > >> distributed
> > > > > >> > system - that is not our goal/task.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > We focus completely on backup system table consistency in a
> > > presence
> > > > > of
> > > > > >> any
> > > > > >> > type of failure. That is what I call "tolerance to failures".
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > On a failure:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > BACKUP. All backup system information (prior to backup) will
> be
> > > > > restored
> > > > > >> > and all temporary data, related to a failed session, in HDFS
> > will
> > > be
> > > > > >> > deleted
> > > > > >> > RESTORE. We do not care about system data, because restore
> does
> > > not
> > > > > >> change
> > > > > >> > it. Temporary data in HDFS will be cleaned up and table will
> be
> > > in a
> > > > > >> state
> > > > > >> > back to where it was before operation started.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > This is what user should expect in case of a failure.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > -Vlad
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > -Vlad
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Sean Busbey <
> bus...@apache.org
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > Failing in a consistent way, with docs that explain the
> > various
> > > > > >> > > expected failures would be sufficient.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Vladimir Rodionov
> > > > > >> > > <vladrodio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > Do not worry Sean, doc is coming today as a preview and
> our
> > > > writer
> > > > > >> > Frank
> > > > > >> > > > will be working on a putting  it into Apache repo.
> Timeline
> > > > > depends
> > > > > >> on
> > > > > >> > > > Franks schedule but I hope we will get it rather sooner
> than
> > > > > later.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > As for failure testing, we are focusing only on a
> consistent
> > > > state
> > > > > >> of
> > > > > >> > > > backup system data in a presence of any type of failures,
> We
> > > are
> > > > > not
> > > > > >> > > going
> > > > > >> > > > to implement  anything more "fancy", than that. We allow
> > both:
> > > > > >> backup
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> > > > restore to fail. What we do not allow is to have system
> data
> > > > > >> corrupted.
> > > > > >> > > > Will it suffice for you? Do you have any other concerns,
> you
> > > > want
> > > > > >> us to
> > > > > >> > > > address?
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > -Vlad
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Sean Busbey <
> > > bus...@apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> "docs will come to Apache soon" does not address my
> concern
> > > > > around
> > > > > >> > docs
> > > > > >> > > at
> > > > > >> > > >> all, unless said docs have already made it into the
> project
> > > > > repo. I
> > > > > >> > > don't
> > > > > >> > > >> want third party resources for using a major and
> important
> > > > > feature
> > > > > >> of
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > >> project, I want us to provide end users with what they
> need
> > > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > job
> > > > > >> > > >> done.
> > > > > >> > > >>
> > > > > >> > > >> I see some calls for patience on the failure testing, but
> > the
> > > > > >> appeal
> > > > > >> > to
> > > > > >> > > us
> > > > > >> > > >> having done a bad job of requiring proper tests of
> previous
> > > > > >> features
> > > > > >> > > just
> > > > > >> > > >> makes me more concerned about not getting them here. I
> > don't
> > > > want
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> > set
> > > > > >> > > >> yet another bad example that will then be pointed to in
> the
> > > > > future.
> > > > > >> > > >>
> > > > > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2016 10:50, "Ted Yu" <yuzhih...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >>
> > > > > >> > > >> > Is there any concern which is not addressed ?
> > > > > >> > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > >> > Do we need another Vote thread ?
> > > > > >> > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > >> > Thanks
> > > > > >> > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > > >> apurt...@apache.org
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > Vlad,
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > I apologize for using the term 'half-baked' in a way
> > that
> > > > > could
> > > > > >> > > seem a
> > > > > >> > > >> > > description of HBASE-7912. I meant that as a general
> > > > > >> hypothetical.
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Vladimir Rodionov <
> > > > > >> > > >> > vladrodio...@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> I'm not sure that "There is already lots of
> > > half-baked
> > > > > >> code
> > > > > >> > in
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > branch,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > so what's the harm in adding more?"
> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > I meant - not production - ready yet. This is 2.0
> > > > > development
> > > > > >> > > branch
> > > > > >> > > >> > and,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > hence many features are in works,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > not being tested well etc. I do not consider backup
> > as
> > > > half
> > > > > >> > baked
> > > > > >> > > >> > > feature -
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > it has passed our internal QA and has very good
> doc,
> > > > which
> > > > > we
> > > > > >> > will
> > > > > >> > > >> > > provide
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > to Apache shortly.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > -Vlad
> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > > >> > > apurt...@apache.org>
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > We shouldn't admit half baked changes that won't
> be
> > > > > >> finished.
> > > > > >> > > >> However
> > > > > >> > > >> > > in
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > this case the crew working on this feature are
> long
> > > > > timers
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >> > > less
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > likely
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > than just about anyone to leave something in a
> half
> > > > baked
> > > > > >> > > state. Of
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > course
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > there is no guarantee how anything will turn out,
> > > but I
> > > > > am
> > > > > >> > > willing
> > > > > >> > > >> to
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > take
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > a little on faith if they feel their best path
> > > forward
> > > > > now
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >> > to
> > > > > >> > > >> > merge
> > > > > >> > > >> > > to
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > trunk. I only wish I had bandwidth to have done
> > some
> > > > real
> > > > > >> > > kicking
> > > > > >> > > >> of
> > > > > >> > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > tires by now. Maybe this week.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > (Yes, I'm using some of that time for this email
> > :-)
> > > > but
> > > > > I
> > > > > >> > type
> > > > > >> > > >> > fast.)
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > That said, I would like to agitate for making 2.0
> > > more
> > > > > real
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> > > >> spend
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > some
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > time on it now that I'm winding down with 0.98. I
> > > think
> > > > > >> that
> > > > > >> > > means
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > branching for 2.0 real soon now and even evicting
> > > > things
> > > > > >> from
> > > > > >> > > 2.0
> > > > > >> > > >> > > branch
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > that aren't finished or stable, leaving them only
> > > once
> > > > > >> again
> > > > > >> > in
> > > > > >> > > the
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > master
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > branch. Or, maybe just evicting them. Let's take
> it
> > > > case
> > > > > by
> > > > > >> > > case.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > I think this feature can come in relatively
> safely.
> > > As
> > > > > >> added
> > > > > >> > > >> > insurance,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > let's admit the possibility it could be reverted
> on
> > > the
> > > > > 2.0
> > > > > >> > > branch
> > > > > >> > > >> if
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > folks
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > working on stabilizing 2.0 decide to evict it
> > because
> > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > >> > unfinished
> > > > > >> > > >> > > or
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > unstable, because that certainly can happen. I
> > would
> > > > > >> expect if
> > > > > >> > > talk
> > > > > >> > > >> > > like
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > that starts, we'd get help finishing or
> stabilizing
> > > > > what's
> > > > > >> > under
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > discussion
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > for revert. Or, we'd have a revert. Either way
> the
> > > > > outcome
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >> > > >> > > acceptable.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Dima Spivak <
> > > > > >> > > dimaspi...@apache.org
> > > > > >> > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > I'm not sure that "There is already lots of
> > > > half-baked
> > > > > >> code
> > > > > >> > in
> > > > > >> > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > branch,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > so what's the harm in adding more?" is a good
> > code
> > > > > commit
> > > > > >> > > >> > philosophy
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > for
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > a
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > fault-tolerant distributed data store. ;)
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > More seriously, a lack of test coverage for
> > > existing
> > > > > >> > features
> > > > > >> > > >> > > shouldn't
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > be
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > used as justification for introducing new
> > features
> > > > with
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > same
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > shortcomings. Ultimately, it's the end user who
> > > will
> > > > > feel
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > >> pain,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > so
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > shouldn't we do everything we can to mitigate
> > that?
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > -Dima
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Vladimir
> > Rodionov <
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > vladrodio...@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Sean,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have docs
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Agree. We have a doc and backup is the most
> > > > > documented
> > > > > >> > > feature
> > > > > >> > > >> > :),
> > > > > >> > > >> > > we
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > will
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > release it shortly to Apache.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have sunny-day correctness tests
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Feature has  close to 60 test cases, which
> run
> > > for
> > > > > >> approx
> > > > > >> > 30
> > > > > >> > > >> min.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > We
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > can
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > add more, if community do not mind :)
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * have correctness-in-face-of-failure tests
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Any examples of these tests in existing
> > features?
> > > > In
> > > > > >> > works,
> > > > > >> > > we
> > > > > >> > > >> > > have a
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > clear
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > understanding of what should be done by the
> > time
> > > of
> > > > > 2.0
> > > > > >> > > >> release.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > That is very close goal for us, to verify IT
> > > monkey
> > > > > for
> > > > > >> > > >> existing
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > code.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > * don't rely on things outside of HBase for
> > > normal
> > > > > >> > operation
> > > > > >> > > >> > (okay
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > for
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > advanced operation)
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > We do not.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Enormous time has been spent already on the
> > > > > development
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> > > >> > testing
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > the
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > feature, it has passed our internal tests and
> > > many
> > > > > >> rounds
> > > > > >> > of
> > > > > >> > > >> code
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > reviews
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > by HBase committers. We do not mind if
> someone
> > > from
> > > > > >> HBase
> > > > > >> > > >> > community
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > (outside of HW) will review the code, but it
> > will
> > > > > >> probably
> > > > > >> > > >> takes
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > forever
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > wait for volunteer?, the feature is quite
> large
> > > > (1MB+
> > > > > >> > > >> cumulative
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > patch)
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > 2.0 branch is full of half baked features,
> most
> > > of
> > > > > them
> > > > > >> > are
> > > > > >> > > in
> > > > > >> > > >> > > active
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > development, therefore I am not following you
> > > here,
> > > > > >> Sean?
> > > > > >> > > Why
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > HBASE-7912
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > is
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > not good enough yet to be integrated into 2.0
> > > > branch?
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -Vlad
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Sean Busbey <
> > > > > >> > > bus...@apache.org
> > > > > >> > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM, Josh
> Elser <
> > > > > >> > > >> > > josh.el...@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > So, the answer to Sean's original
> question
> > is
> > > > "as
> > > > > >> > > robust as
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > snapshots
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > presently are"? (independence of
> > > backup/restore
> > > > > >> > failure
> > > > > >> > > >> > > tolerance
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > from
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > snapshot failure tolerance)
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > Is this just a question WRT context of
> the
> > > > > change,
> > > > > >> or
> > > > > >> > > is it
> > > > > >> > > >> > > means
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > for a
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > veto
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > from you, Sean? Just trying to make sure
> > I'm
> > > > > >> following
> > > > > >> > > >> along
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > adequately.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > I'd say ATM I'm -0, bordering on -1 but not
> > for
> > > > > >> reasons
> > > > > >> > I
> > > > > >> > > can
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > articulate
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > well.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Here's an attempt.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > We've been trying to move, as a community,
> > > > towards
> > > > > >> > > minimizing
> > > > > >> > > >> > > risk
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > to
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > downstream folks by getting "complete
> enough
> > > for
> > > > > use"
> > > > > >> > > gates
> > > > > >> > > >> in
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > place
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > before we introduce new features. This was
> > > > spurred
> > > > > >> by a
> > > > > >> > > some
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > features
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > getting in half-baked and never making it
> to
> > > "can
> > > > > >> really
> > > > > >> > > use"
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > status
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > (I'm thinking of distributed log replay and
> > the
> > > > > >> zk-less
> > > > > >> > > >> > > assignment
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > stuff, I don't recall if there was more).
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The gates, generally, included things like:
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have docs
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have sunny-day correctness tests
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * have correctness-in-face-of-failure tests
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't rely on things outside of HBase for
> > > > normal
> > > > > >> > > operation
> > > > > >> > > >> > > (okay
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > for
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > advanced operation)
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > As an example, we kept the MOB work off in
> a
> > > > branch
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >> > > out
> > > > > >> > > >> of
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > master
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > until it could pass these criteria. The big
> > > > > exemption
> > > > > >> > > we've
> > > > > >> > > >> had
> > > > > >> > > >> > > to
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > this was the hbase-spark integration, where
> > we
> > > > all
> > > > > >> > agreed
> > > > > >> > > it
> > > > > >> > > >> > > could
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > land in master because it was very well
> > > isolated
> > > > > (the
> > > > > >> > > slide
> > > > > >> > > >> > away
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > from
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > including docs as a first-class part of
> > > building
> > > > up
> > > > > >> that
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > integration
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > has led me to doubt the wisdom of this
> > > decision).
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > We've also been treating inclusion in a
> > > "probably
> > > > > >> will
> > > > > >> > be
> > > > > >> > > >> > > released
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > to
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > downstream" branches as a higher bar,
> > requiring
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't moderately impact performance when
> > the
> > > > > >> feature
> > > > > >> > > isn't
> > > > > >> > > >> in
> > > > > >> > > >> > > use
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * don't severely impact performance when
> the
> > > > > feature
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >> > in
> > > > > >> > > >> use
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > * either default-to-on or show enough
> demand
> > to
> > > > > >> believe
> > > > > >> > a
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > non-trivial
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > number of folks will turn the feature on
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The above has kept MOB and hbase-spark
> > > > integration
> > > > > >> out
> > > > > >> > of
> > > > > >> > > >> > > branch-1,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > presumably while they've "gotten more
> stable"
> > > in
> > > > > >> master
> > > > > >> > > from
> > > > > >> > > >> > the
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > odd
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > vendor inclusion.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Are we going to have a 2.0 release before
> the
> > > end
> > > > > of
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > >> year?
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > We're
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > coming up on 1.5 years since the release of
> > > > version
> > > > > >> 1.0;
> > > > > >> > > >> seems
> > > > > >> > > >> > > like
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > it's about time, though I haven't seen any
> > > > concrete
> > > > > >> > plans
> > > > > >> > > >> this
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > year.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Presuming we are going to have one by the
> end
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> > > year, it
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > seems a
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > bit close to still be adding in "features
> > that
> > > > need
> > > > > >> > > maturing"
> > > > > >> > > >> > on
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > the
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > branch.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > The lack of a concrete plan for 2.0 keeps
> me
> > > from
> > > > > >> > > considering
> > > > > >> > > >> > > these
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > things blocker at the moment. But I know
> > first
> > > > hand
> > > > > >> how
> > > > > >> > > much
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > trouble
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > folks have had with other features that
> have
> > > gone
> > > > > >> into
> > > > > >> > > >> > downstream
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > facing releases without robustness checks
> > (i.e.
> > > > > >> > > replication),
> > > > > >> > > >> > and
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > I'm
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > concerned about what we're setting up if
> 2.0
> > > goes
> > > > > out
> > > > > >> > with
> > > > > >> > > >> this
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > feature in its current state.
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > --
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >    - Andy
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by
> > > hitting
> > > > > >> back. -
> > > > > >> > > Piet
> > > > > >> > > >> > > Hein
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > (via Tom White)
> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > --
> > > > > >> > > >> > > Best regards,
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > >    - Andy
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> > > Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by
> hitting
> > > > back.
> > > > > -
> > > > > >> > Piet
> > > > > >> > > >> Hein
> > > > > >> > > >> > > (via Tom White)
> > > > > >> > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > >>
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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