Hi all, There was a lot of engagement on this discussion on the mailing list, but less so on the JIRA. Can interested folks make some time to take a look?
I'd like to make sure that we have a lot of buy in before adding this content to the official docs, since it impacts the entire community. Thanks, Mike On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Mike Drob <[email protected]> wrote: > Yep, filed https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18974 to track > adding to the docs. > > On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Chia-Ping Tsai <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> The is a great discussion. And i love misty's list. >> Don't let this die. What about putting the summary in our docs? >> >> -- >> Chia-Ping >> >> On 2017-09-30 02:34, Andrew Purtell <[email protected]> wrote: >> > This conversation is in a good place. I apologize for the tone of my >> > earlier allergic reaction but not the content. I hope that is >> acceptable. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Mike Drob <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > To bounce off of what Yu Li said earlier - I see Hadoop has adopted >> very >> > > similar language to the Spark list: >> > > http://hadoop.apache.org/committer_criteria.html >> > > >> > > I especially like the examples at the bottom. They are four diverse >> paths, >> > > and there is no expectation that this is an exclusive list. If we >> were to >> > > write our own, I think it should reflect Andrew's highlighting of the >> > > non-professional contributor's path. And also important is to include >> the >> > > soft skills from Misty's list. >> > > >> > > Mike >> > > >> > > On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 5:07 PM, Stack <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > > Good discussion. Thanks Mike for kicking it off. >> > > > >> > > > The Misty list is great. >> > > > >> > > > I find myself giving double kudos for non-code or feature contribs; >> e.g. >> > > > stuff like test-fixing, patches that fix bugs found in production or >> > > > patches from operators that ease their day-to-day burden, voting on >> > > > releases, doc., (useful, encouraging, deep, helpful) review of the >> work >> > > of >> > > > others, etc. (I'd love it if someone took ownership of our website >> -- >> > > hint, >> > > > hint). >> > > > >> > > > Sean has a dictum, paraphrasing, "...the fastest route to >> commitership is >> > > > doing what no one else wants to do" (Did I mangle that Busbey?), >> which I >> > > > like. >> > > > >> > > > While Andrew may have misjudged Mike Drob's original intent, I >> appreciate >> > > > his rallying to the cause of the non-professional contributor and >> his >> > > > reaction to (mis-perceived) call for quantification (For a classic >> on the >> > > > problems that arise when hard-and-fast rules, see [2]). I'm with him >> > > > defending PMC right to give 'spirit' and 'gut' precedence over >> 'rules' >> > > > (Often, it *is* just a case of you know it when you see it). And as >> per >> > > > Andy, if perceived injustice or bias, please write here or >> private@hbase. >> > > > >> > > > Lets keep dumping on this thread. We can then summarize and make it >> easy >> > > > for prospectives to find (can also add links to stuff such as the >> recent >> > > > Wang+Leblang talk at ApacheCon [1] and Andrew's write up for how to >> be a >> > > > committer on Hadoop as background). >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > St.Ack >> > > > >> > > > 1. >> > > > https://apachecon2017.sched.com/event/9zv3/a-tale-of-two- >> > > > developers-finding-harmony-between-commercial-software- >> > > > development-and-the-apache-way-andrew-wang-alex-leblang-cloudera >> > > > 2. >> > > > https://books.google.com/books/about/Seeing_Like_a_ >> > > > State.html?id=PqcPCgsr2u0C >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Zach York < >> [email protected] >> > > > >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > bq. As a >> > > > > relatively new member in the HBase community and a non-committer, >> once >> > > > the >> > > > > new member decides that he/ she wants to become a Committer, it >> will be >> > > > > helpful to have a list of PMC members that he/ she can >> communicate with >> > > > and >> > > > > get feedback from time to time. Feedback may include potential >> > > > adjustments >> > > > > and rough idea about progress towards the goal. >> > > > > >> > > > > This sounds like a good idea! Ideally, if you interact with the >> > > community >> > > > > often enough, you should be building connections, but it nevers >> hurts >> > > to >> > > > > have someone to check how they perceive your work. >> > > > > >> > > > > bq. For others, having >> > > > > this list of volunteer mentors, will surely help. >> > > > > >> > > > > Again I agree. This part is especially important as it is hard to >> judge >> > > > > your progress if you don't have someone at the same company to >> converse >> > > > > with. >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Umesh Agashe < >> [email protected]> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Thank you all for a good discussion here. Issues with both >> having and >> > > > NOT >> > > > > > having documented specific criteria are well articulated here. >> As a >> > > > > > relatively new member in the HBase community and a >> non-committer, >> > > once >> > > > > the >> > > > > > new member decides that he/ she wants to become a Committer, it >> will >> > > be >> > > > > > helpful to have a list of PMC members that he/ she can >> communicate >> > > with >> > > > > and >> > > > > > get feedback from time to time. Feedback may include potential >> > > > > adjustments >> > > > > > and rough idea about progress towards the goal. Paid >> professionals >> > > who >> > > > > are >> > > > > > working with PMC members, can talk to their colleagues. For >> others, >> > > > > having >> > > > > > this list of volunteer mentors, will surely help. IMHO, this >> will >> > > make >> > > > > > process a bit more transparent. I would like to know your >> thoughts on >> > > > > this. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > > Umesh >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Misty Stanley-Jones < >> > > [email protected] >> > > > > >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I feel like I inject this note into all discussions like >> this, but >> > > > I'm >> > > > > > > going to do it again. "Act like a committer" does not ONLY >> mean to >> > > > > > produce >> > > > > > > code for HBase. It means to support the project. This may >> mean any >> > > of >> > > > > the >> > > > > > > following, plus a long list of other things I'm sure I'm not >> > > thinking >> > > > > of >> > > > > > > right now: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > - Contribute to the docs (yay!) >> > > > > > > - Help fix and improve testing >> > > > > > > - Participate in release candidate votes, even if non-binding >> > > > > > > - Review other people's work >> > > > > > > - Help newbies >> > > > > > > - Answer questions >> > > > > > > - Update the website >> > > > > > > - File issues >> > > > > > > - Mentor new contributors of all sorts >> > > > > > > - Give talks about HBase >> > > > > > > - Write blogs about HBase >> > > > > > > - Participate in design discussions >> > > > > > > - Provide UX feedback >> > > > > > > - Write demo applications >> > > > > > > - Help us attract and retain a diverse community >> > > > > > > - Interact with other projects in ways that benefit HBase and >> those >> > > > > other >> > > > > > > projects >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I would personally consider all of these bullet points to be >> super >> > > > > > > significant in "act like a committer" type discussions. I >> think >> > > that >> > > > > > > contributing code is only one aspect. For some reason it >> seems to >> > > be >> > > > > the >> > > > > > > most appealing aspect to lots of people, but IMHO that makes >> for a >> > > > poor >> > > > > > > community experience. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Mike Drob <[email protected] >> > >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi folks, >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I've been chatting with folks off and on about this for a >> while, >> > > > and >> > > > > > was >> > > > > > > > told that this made sense as a discussion on the dev@ list. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > How does the PMC select folks for committership? The most >> common >> > > > > answer >> > > > > > > is >> > > > > > > > that folks should 'act like a committer' but that's >> painfully >> > > > > nebulous >> > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > easy to get sidetracked onto other topics. The problem is >> > > > compounded >> > > > > > > > because what may be great on one project is inconsistently >> > > applied >> > > > on >> > > > > > > other >> > > > > > > > projects in the ASF, and yet we are all very tightly >> coupled as >> > > > > > > communities >> > > > > > > > and as project dependencies. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Ideally, this is something that we can document in the book. >> > > Misty >> > > > > > gently >> > > > > > > > pointed out http://hbase.apache.org/book.h >> tml#_guide_for_hbase_ >> > > > > > > committers >> > > > > > > > but >> > > > > > > > also noted that it's for what happens after somebody >> becomes a >> > > > > > committer. >> > > > > > > > Still, if the standard is "act like one until you become >> one" >> > > then >> > > > > it's >> > > > > > > > useful reading for people. Also, there doesn't seem to be >> any >> > > > > > guidelines >> > > > > > > > like this for PMC. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Is the list of prerequisites possible to articulate, or >> will it >> > > > > always >> > > > > > > boil >> > > > > > > > down to "intangibles?" Is there a concern that providing a >> > > > checklist >> > > > > > > > (perhaps a list of items necessary, but not sufficient) >> will lead >> > > > to >> > > > > > > folks >> > > > > > > > motivated wrongly, similar to oft maligned "resume driven >> > > > > development?" >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I'll kick off the discussion by saying that my personal >> yardstick >> > > > of >> > > > > > > "Can I >> > > > > > > > trust this person's judgement regarding code/reviews" is >> probably >> > > > too >> > > > > > > vague >> > > > > > > > to be useful, and even worse is impossible for others to >> apply. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Curiously, >> > > > > > > > Mike >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Best regards, >> > Andrew >> > >> > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's >> > decrepit hands >> > - A23, Crosstalk >> > >> > >
