https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17217

Ongoing.

S

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 12:17 PM Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org> wrote:

> +1, please do
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 9:55 AM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
>
> > I was going to file an issue w/ INFRA this evening asking that they
> disable
> > github comment/commits being added as JIRA comments (See HBASE-21435 for
> an
> > innocuous example of this feature in action and HBASE-21430 for an
> > illustration of how it can quickly turn silly). While I could see
> > github-comments-appearing-as-JIRA comments working if the changesets were
> > small, it blows away JIRA if the change has any weight at all.
> >
> > I was going to ask that the github/gitbox commentary instead go to
> issues@
> > mailing list (Sean suggestion. Duo and our Peter asked off-list suggested
> > we not fill JIRA comments). Shout if you are against or have any
> > preferences.
> >
> > Yours,
> > S
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 11:43 AM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Related, interesting thread on how various projects are doing the
> > > github<->asf connection has just started[1].
> > >
> > > A few have a notifications list that gets the github notification
> emails.
> > > Email clients make parseable threads of the firehose apparently. We
> might
> > > do same.
> > >
> > > S
> > > 1.
> > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/201811.mbox/browser
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:37 AM Josh Elser <els...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 11/2/18 11:20 AM, Stack wrote:
> > >> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 7:30 AM Josh Elser <els...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Nice stuff, Stack!
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> > Not me. It Mike's work.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Sorry, didn't mean it that way. Was happy to see you pushing the
> > >> hbase-connectors repo forward :)
> > >>
> > >> Obviously kudos to MikeW for the code itself!
> > >>
> > >> >> Two quick questions:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> First, on provenance: this codebase primarily came from Mike
> Wingert
> > on
> > >> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-15320? Just saw that
> the
> > >> >> commit came from your email addr -- wasn't sure if that Mike was
> > still
> > >> >> involved (or you took it to completion).
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> > You talking about the merge done over on the hbase-connectors?
> > >> >
> > >> > Looks like I get blamed for the merge -- if I do a show on the merge
> > >> > commit, it is nothing but the merge note "Merge pull request #3 from
> > >> > hbasejanitor/master" where hbasejanitor is Mike's handle -- but then
> > the
> > >> > merge note is followed by Mikes' work, properly attributed to him.
> > >> >
> > >> > I did not pay close attention to this aspect of how git boxing does
> > it.
> > >> > Seems fine to me. What you think?
> > >>
> > >> Ahh, no, this was just me. I think I only looked at the first
> commit(s),
> > >> and not far enough down the list. No concerns.
> > >>
> > >> >> Second, I assume this new Git repo had all of the normal
> email-hooks
> > >> set
> > >> >> up. Do you know where they are being sent (dev, commit, or issues)?
> > I'm
> > >> >> also assuming that this is a Gitbox repo -- are we OK with
> > >> pull-requests
> > >> >> to this repo (as well as operator-tools) but still create a Jira
> > issue?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> > Yep, gitbox. It has whatever infra set it up as.
> > >> >
> > >> > Back and forth was dumped into HBASE-21002 (We changed this config
> on
> > >> > hbase-operator-tools config to not do this? I should look).
> > >> >
> > >> > Regards pull requests, etc., email configs., etc., we are in
> > >> experimental
> > >> > mode around all this stuff trying to figure it out so
> > >> > suggestions/help/exercising the possibilities are all welcome.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> > S
> > >>
> > >> Grand. Thanks for the reminder. Had a random question in Slack the
> other
> > >> day about contributions -- will keep the "pave your own road" mindset
> in
> > >> the fore-front :)
> > >>
> > >> >> - Josh
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On 10/31/18 6:43 PM, Stack wrote:
> > >> >>> To tie-off this thread, this nice feature was just pushed on
> > >> >>> hbase-connector. See
> > >> >>> https://github.com/apache/hbase-connectors/tree/master/kafka for
> > >> how-to.
> > >> >>> Review and commentary welcome.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Thanks,
> > >> >>> S
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 6:32 AM Hbase Janitor <
> > hbasejani...@gmail.com>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> I opened hbase-21002 to start the scripts and assembly.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Mike
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 19:29 Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> Up in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-20934 I
> created
> > >> an
> > >> >>>>> hbase-connectors repo. I put some form on it using the v19 patch
> > >> from
> > >> >>>>> HBASE-15320 "HBase connector for Kafka Connect". It builds and
> > tests
> > >> >>>>> pass. Here are some remaining TODOs:
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>    * Figure how to do start scripts: e.g. we need to start up
> the
> > >> kafka
> > >> >>>>> proxy. It wants some hbase jars, conf dir, and others on the
> > >> CLASSPATH
> > >> >>>>> (Depend on an HBASE_HOME and then source bin/hbase?)
> > >> >>>>>    * Can any of the connectors make-do with the shaded client?
> > >> >>>>>    * Make connectors standalone or have them share conf, bin,
> etc?
> > >> >>>>>    * Need to do an assembly. Not done.
> > >> >>>>>    * Move over REST and thrift next. Mapreduce after?
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> The poms could do w/ a review. Hacked them over from
> > >> hbase-thirdparty.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> File issues and apply patches up in JIRA if your up for any of
> the
> > >> >> above.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Thanks,
> > >> >>>>> S
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 10:46 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net>
> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:01 PM Misty Linville <
> > mi...@apache.org>
> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> I like the idea of a separate connectors repo/release vehicle,
> > but
> > >> >>>> I'm a
> > >> >>>>>>> little concerned about the need to release all together to
> > update
> > >> >> just
> > >> >>>>> one
> > >> >>>>>>> of the connectors. How would that work? What kind of
> > compatibility
> > >> >>>>>>> guarantees are we signing up for?
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> I hate responses that begin "Good question" -- so fawning --
> but,
> > >> >> ahem,
> > >> >>>>> good question Misty (in the literal, not flattering, sense).
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> I think hbase-connectors will be like hbase-thirdparty. The
> > latter
> > >> >>>>> includes netty, pb, guava and a few other bits and pieces so
> yeah,
> > >> >>>>> sometimes a netty upgrade or an improvement on our patch to pb
> > will
> > >> >>>> require
> > >> >>>>> us releasing all though we are fixing one lib only. Usually, if
> > >> >> bothering
> > >> >>>>> to make a release, we'll check for fixes or updates we can do in
> > the
> > >> >>>> other
> > >> >>>>> bundled components.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> On the rate of releases, I foresee a flurry of activity around
> > >> launch
> > >> >>>> as
> > >> >>>>> we fill missing bits and address critical bug fixes, but that
> then
> > >> it
> > >> >>>> will
> > >> >>>>> settle down to be boring, with just the occasional update.
> Thrift
> > >> and
> > >> >>>> REST
> > >> >>>>> have been stable for a good while now (not saying this is a good
> > >> >> thing).
> > >> >>>>> Our Sean just suggested moving mapreduce to connectors too -- an
> > >> >>>>> interesting idea -- and this has also been stable too (at least
> > >> until
> > >> >>>>> recently with the shading work). We should talk about the Spark
> > >> >> connector
> > >> >>>>> when it comes time. It might not be as stable as the others.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> On the compatibility guarantees, we'll semver it so if an
> > >> incompatible
> > >> >>>>> change in a connector or if the connectors have to change to
> > match a
> > >> >> new
> > >> >>>>> version of hbase, we'll make sure the hbase-connector version
> > >> number is
> > >> >>>>> changed appropriately. On the backend, what Mike says;
> connectors
> > >> use
> > >> >>>> HBase
> > >> >>>>> Public APIs (else they can't be moved to the hbase-connector
> > repo).
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> S
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 9:41 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> Grand. I filed
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-20934
> > >> .
> > >> >>>>> Let me
> > >> >>>>>>>> have a go at making the easy one work first (the kafka
> proxy).
> > >> Lets
> > >> >>>>> see how
> > >> >>>>>>>> it goes. I'll report back here.
> > >> >>>>>>>> S
> > >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 2:43 PM Sean Busbey <
> bus...@apache.org
> > >
> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>> Key functionality for the project's adoption should be in
> the
> > >> >>>>> project.
> > >> >>>>>>>>> Please do not suggest we donate things to Bahir.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>> I apologize if this is brisk. I have had previous negative
> > >> >>>>> experiences
> > >> >>>>>>>>> with folks that span our communities trying to move work I
> > >> spent a
> > >> >>>>> lot
> > >> >>>>>>>>> of time contributing to within HBase over to Bahir in an
> > attempt
> > >> >>>> to
> > >> >>>>>>>>> bypass an agreed upon standard of quality.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Artem Ervits <
> > >> >>>>> artemerv...@gmail.com>
> > >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Why not just donating the connector to
> > >> http://bahir.apache.org/
> > >> >>>> ?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 12:51 PM Lars Francke <
> > >> >>>>> lars.fran...@gmail.com>
> > >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to have the Kafka Connector included.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> @Mike thanks so much for the contribution (and your
> planned
> > >> >>>> ones)
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm +1 on adding it to the core but I'm also +1 on having
> a
> > >> >>>>> separate
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> repository under Apache governance
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 6:01 PM, Josh Elser <
> > >> els...@apache.org
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to the great point by Duo about use of non-IA.Public
> > >> >>>> classes
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for Apache for the governance (although, I wouldn't
> care
> > >> >>>> if
> > >> >>>>> we
> > >> >>>>>>>> use
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Github PRs to try to encourage more folks to
> contribute), a
> > >> >>>>> repo
> > >> >>>>>>>> with
> > >> >>>>>>>>> the
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> theme of "connectors" (to include Thrift, REST, and the
> > >> >>>> like).
> > >> >>>>> Spark
> > >> >>>>>>>>> too
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we had suggested that prior, but it could be a
> > mental
> > >> >>>>>>>>> invention
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> of
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> mine..
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/24/18 10:16 AM, Hbase Janitor wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm the author of the patch.  A separate repo for all
> the
> > >> >>>>>>>> connectors
> > >> >>>>>>>>> is
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> a
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> great idea! I can make whatever changes necessary to the
> > >> >>>>> patch to
> > >> >>>>>>>>> help.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have several other integration type projects like this
> > >> >>>>> planned.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 00:03 Mike Drob <md...@apache.org
> >
> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would be ok with all of the connectors in a single
> repo.
> > >> >>>>> Doing a
> > >> >>>>>>>>> repo
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> per
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> connector seems like a large amount of overhead work.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 9:12 PM Clay B. <c...@clayb.net>
> > >> >>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Non-binding]
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for the Kafka Connect(er) as indeed it makes
> > >> >>>> HBase
> > >> >>>>> "more
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant" and generates buzz to help me sell HBase
> > >> >>>> adoption
> > >> >>>>> in my
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endeavors.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I would like to see a connectors repo a lot as I
> > >> >>>> would
> > >> >>>>>>>>> expect it
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make the HBase source and releases more obvious in
> what
> > is
> > >> >>>>>>>>> changing.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Not
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to distract from Kafka, but Spark has in the past
> been a
> > >> >>>>> hang-up
> > >> >>>>>>>>> and
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a good fit in such a repo too; as such, I would prefer
> > >> >>>>> Apache
> > >> >>>>>>>> over
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Clay
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2018, Andrew Purtell wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would we make a new repo called hbase-connectors and
> > move
> > >> >>>>> REST,
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thrift,
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and this new patch there?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like this idea. We are already releasing
> > >> >>>>> hbase-thirdparty like
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> this.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 5:47 PM Stack <
> > st...@duboce.net>
> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Thanks for the good discussion)
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where we think  'outside of HBase' would be?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Github seems too 'remote' from project and from
> > Apache?
> > >> >>>>> Would
> > >> >>>>>>>> we
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> make
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repo called hbase-connectors and move REST, thrift,
> and
> > >> >>>>> this new
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> patch
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 3:50 PM Josh Elser <
> > >> >>>>> els...@apache.org>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm -0 for including this into the main hbase tree.
> I
> > >> >>>>> feel like
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> we've
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made a bit of progress in cleaning up our core, and
> > >> >>>> this
> > >> >>>>>>>>> strikes me
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step in the wrong direction.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the same time, the integration seems nice enough
> > >> >>>> (for
> > >> >>>>> the
> > >> >>>>>>>>> same
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons Andrew points out). Is there a reason this
> > >> >>>>> couldn't
> > >> >>>>>>>>> exist
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside of HBase (at the ASF or otherwise)? Given a
> > >> >>>> quick
> > >> >>>>>>>>> glance at
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch, it would be quite trivial to keep separate
> (just
> > >> >>>>> requires
> > >> >>>>>>>>> some
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavier scripting to get it off the ground that the
> > >> >>>> HBase
> > >> >>>>>>>>> scripts
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> do
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setup for). I feel like that will decrease our debt
> > >> >>>>> while we
> > >> >>>>>>>>> see if
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people start using it. Our API should be more than
> > >> >>>> stable
> > >> >>>>>>>>> enough to
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent any worry about drift happening from core
> to
> > >> >>>> this
> > >> >>>>>>>>> project.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/23/18 6:35 PM, Stack wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have a very nice contrib sitting up in
> > HBASE-15320
> > >> >>>>> which
> > >> >>>>>>>>> via a
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proxy
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so minimal dependencies -- adds source and sink
> for
> > >> >>>>> Kafka
> > >> >>>>>>>>> Connect.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely contained inside two new hbase-kafka-*
> > modules.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We good w/ taking on this new feature?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks good to me. Check it out up on
> > HBASE-15320. I
> > >> >>>>> was
> > >> >>>>>>>>> going
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commit
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to tip of branch-2 so it'd show up in hbase-2.2.x
> > >> >>>>> unless you
> > >> >>>>>>>>> all
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backporting action going on.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning
> > torn
> > >> >>>>> from
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> truth's
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decrepit hands
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      - A23, Crosstalk
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Andrew
>
> Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> decrepit hands
>    - A23, Crosstalk
>

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