Thank you for raising these points about the ICLA, Sushanth. I'm looking forward to the discussion in another thread.
-- Lefty On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Sushanth Sowmyan <khorg...@gmail.com> wrote: > I accept that this need not be linked to the jira-users issue itself, > except that it made it much more difficult to enforce that > contributors have ICLAs on file if we choose to go down that route. I > will send out another mail asking for the project's position on ICLAs > for all contributors, and what the committers should be responsible > for in a separate mail. > > Also, yes, even if ICLA is on file, that does not imply that the > contributor had rights to contribute, but it does put the legal > responsibility on the contributor, rather than on the project or the > committers. > > On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I would like to emphasise again that this change in adding jira-users, > > does not change Hive's policy regarding ICLA. In hive, we never > > required people to file ICLA before submitting a patch. > > > > Your question regarding ICLA requirements merits a discussion on its > > own. Even if ICLA is on file, that does not automatically imply that > > the contributor had all rights to contribute. It just means that such > > a contributor has lied, if he didn't have rights to contribute. > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Sushanth Sowmyan <khorg...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I will defer to the larger community's opinion on this, and from the > >> looks of it, Apache does suggest, but not require (but does heavily > >> suggest as desired) an ICLA from contributors, but I kinda agree with > >> > https://julien.ponge.org/blog/in-defense-of-contributor-license-agreements/ > >> in the place ICLAs have with projects. > >> > >> The relevant portion, as I see it, is this: > >> > >>>> Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions of > this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to recipients of > software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual, worldwide, > non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable copyright license to > reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, > sublicense, and distribute Your Contributions and such derivative works. > >>> This is, I think, the first key point. Contributors explictly grant a > license to the upstream project maintainers to use contributions. > Sublicensing is important, too, as it opens licensing under new terms in > the future, even if the contributor is out of reach. > >> > >> I feel like without having an ICLA requirement for contributors(and > >> yes, I acknowledge that being a jira-user and requesting in the > >> mailing list did not already cover this - it was my mistaken memory > >> that felt like it did from back when the jira had a UI element > >> granting ASF rights), committers open themselves to the possibility > >> that we +1 and accept a contribution that we will wind up being > >> responsible for that should not have been legally acceptable. > >> > >> I also agree with Lefty that taken to an extreme, this could apply for > >> docs and wiki, etc, and that does sound ludicrous, but still a place > >> we open ourselves to legal responsibility. If $COMPANY sues apache > >> because we have some content in our wiki that we should not have, > >> removal is not hard. If that happens with our git repo, we're in for a > >> not-fun exercise in rewriting git history. > >> > >> I also concede the advantages in being more "open" by making it easier > >> to contribute, and indeed the link I paste above does refer to people > >> that will not contribute to a project that has a CLA requirement, but > >> I'm not completely satisfied by not addressing this issue in some > >> manner either. > >> > >> This is not a -1 for this move, and indeed, would/could not be a > >> binding one even if it were so, but I would like to understand what > >> the hive project's legal position is on the cases where a committer > >> commits a patch that a contributor contributed that they did not have > >> rights to contribute. > >> > >> > >> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> I guess the limit is around the number of entries in the contributor > >>> group, and adding a jira-user group would not count towards that. > >>> Let me give it a try. > >>> > >>> That INFRA jira is another good reason to add jira-users group to > contributors! > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 11:31 PM, Carl Steinbach <cwsteinb...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> It turns out there's a limit on the number of people you can list as > >>>> "contributors" for any given JIRA project. I bumped into this a couple > >>>> months back when I tried adding someone to the list and found this: > >>>> > >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7293 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 10:02 PM, Lefty Leverenz < > leftylever...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Sure, go for it. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Lefty > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > As Lefty noted, we don't require anyone being made a jira > contributor > >>>>> > or uploading a patch to have ICLA on file. Apache does not require > >>>>> > that, though that is encouraged. > >>>>> > So allowing any user to be a contributor without asking for > permission > >>>>> > does not change things with respect to ICLA. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Looks like people are on board with this. I will change the > settings > >>>>> > in another day as long as there are no objections. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Lefty Leverenz < > leftylever...@gmail.com > >>>>> > > >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > > Hive only requires committers to sign ICLAs. That doesn't seem > to > >>>>> > provide > >>>>> > > any legal protection when non-committers contribute patches. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > In days gone by, JIRA made us assign rights to Apache when we > attached > >>>>> a > >>>>> > > patch to an issue. That's still in the instructions for > Contributing > >>>>> > Your > >>>>> > > Work > >>>>> > > < > >>>>> > > >>>>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/HowToContribute#HowToContribute-ContributingYourWork > >>>>> > >: > >>>>> > > "Please note that the attachment should be granted license to > ASF for > >>>>> > > inclusion in ASF work" although the JIRA GUI doesn't have that > option > >>>>> > > anymore. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > See Apache's page on licenses < > http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas>: > >>>>> > "The > >>>>> > > ASF desires that all contributors of ideas, code, or > documentation to > >>>>> the > >>>>> > > Apache projects complete, sign, and submit (via postal mail, fax > or > >>>>> > email) > >>>>> > > an Individual Contributor License Agreement" *(highlighting > added)*. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > So documentation in the wiki should also be covered by ICLAs. > Carried > >>>>> to > >>>>> > > extremes, anyone who participates on a mailing list, comments on > a JIRA > >>>>> > > issue, or reviews a patch should sign an ICLA. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > -- Lefty > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Sushanth Sowmyan < > khorg...@gmail.com> > >>>>> > > wrote: > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > >> I seem to remember something on the lines of that the > traditional > >>>>> reason > >>>>> > >> was so that a project could be sure that the contributor had an > ICLA > >>>>> on > >>>>> > >> file with apache so as to not expose the project to legal risk > of code > >>>>> > that > >>>>> > >> was contributed that the contributor did not have any rights > to. We > >>>>> > should > >>>>> > >> probably check with folks from other projects who've had > experience > >>>>> > dealing > >>>>> > >> with stuff like this? > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> Maybe Owen? > >>>>> > >> On May 2, 2015 17:08, "Thejas Nair" <thejas.n...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > Sending again, didn't make to the list for some reason. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>>>> > >> > From: Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> > >>>>> > >> > Date: Fri, May 1, 2015 at 1:53 PM > >>>>> > >> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Allow any jira user to assign HIVE bugs to > them > >>>>> > self > >>>>> > >> > To: dev <dev@hive.apache.org> > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I am not sure why a user needs to ask to be added as a > contributor > >>>>> in > >>>>> > >> > HIVE jira to be able to assign jiras to themselves. I don't > see it > >>>>> > >> > adding any value. Also the jira ADMIN UI for adding this is > usually > >>>>> > >> > flaky. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > I think we should let any jira users assign the bugs to them > self. > >>>>> > >> > Looks like adding jira-users group to contributions would do > it. > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Thoughts ? > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > Thanks, > >>>>> > >> > Thejas > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > > >>>>> >
