Hi Igniters, After removal of GitHub Comments from the list I have (a very subjective) feeling, that there became more human-human interaction, which is definitely more important that opportunity to control new JIRA tickets using the list.
I suggest coming back to the idea of moving JIRA to a separate list. Please share your vision on this topic. Should it be j...@ignite.apache.org or we should reuse notificati...@ignite.apache.org Sincerely, Dmitriy Pavlov ср, 21 нояб. 2018 г. в 15:25, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpav...@apache.org>: > Please start a vote according to > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html > Anyone can start a vote, you don't need to be a PMC. > > I don't feel it is a very important issue to remove notifications from the > list, as it can be easily filtered out using mail setup. But if someone > feels it is really disturbing, please go ahead. I'm ok with GitHub > redirection, but I will not drive this topic. > > ср, 21 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:40, Павлухин Иван <vololo...@gmail.com>: > >> Dmitriy, let's proceed with it. >> вт, 20 нояб. 2018 г. в 23:20, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpav...@apache.org>: >> > >> > One more thing I want to emphasize here. We can't just remove messages, >> it >> > _must_ be sent to some list, which is why we need some additional list, >> > e.g. notifications@ for this. >> > >> > So only one option to proceed here is to run a formal vote on list >> creation >> > and redirection of github/gitbox messages to a new list. >> > >> > пн, 19 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:23, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpav...@apache.org>: >> > >> > > Denis, we need because contributors do not announce their >> > > intent/designs/etc manually. It is the best way ever? No, of course. >> > > >> > > We have consensus on PR removal, so let's do it and see results. >> > > >> > > пн, 19 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:11, Denis Mekhanikov <dmekhani...@gmail.com >> >: >> > > >> > >> Dmitriy, >> > >> >> > >> If a person wants to track all new tickets, then he may go to JIRA, >> create >> > >> a filter for Ignite tickets >> > >> and subscribe to it. JIRA has a pretty flexible configuration of >> filters >> > >> and subscriptions, so you can >> > >> specify exactly what issues you are interested in, and how often you >> want >> > >> to receive these emails. >> > >> This is much more convenient and more flexible than filtering emails >> from >> > >> a >> > >> bot. >> > >> >> > >> So, most people ignore JIRA messages, and the ones who want to track >> new >> > >> tickets, >> > >> may go to JIRA and configure their own filters. I don't see, why we >> need >> > >> to >> > >> keep the forwarding to dev list. >> > >> >> > >> Denis >> > >> >> > >> пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г. в 22:30, Павлухин Иван <vololo...@gmail.com>: >> > >> >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > >> > >> > Can we collect opinions about keeping messages of mentioned types >> on >> > >> > dev list? From my side (+ means keeping on dev list): >> > >> > TC bot + >> > >> > Jira - >> > >> > GitHub - >> > >> > пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г. в 22:25, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpav...@apache.org>: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Importance is hardly definable and it is not possible that >> importance >> > >> is >> > >> > > equal for everyone. You can say about other human emails it is >> not >> > >> > > important if some product area is not interesting for you. So I >> can >> > >> only >> > >> > > understand the terms: email needs action/does not need action. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > If some contributor never reacted to JIRA notification he or she >> may >> > >> > think >> > >> > > it is not important. But even we have a majority of contributors >> who >> > >> > > ignores JIRA, it does not mean it is a right decision to switch >> it >> > >> off. >> > >> > We >> > >> > > don't play in a democracy, hopefully. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > My suggestion now: keep showing an excellent example of >> human-human >> > >> > > interaction, announces, etc from all Ignite veterans (especially, >> > >> PMCs), >> > >> > so >> > >> > > newcomers can use the same approach. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > If PRs removal to notifications@ will show a positive tendency >> in >> > >> > > human-human interaction, I can easily agree with the second >> step. Only >> > >> > > practice is truth criteria. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г. в 22:08, Vladimir Ozerov < >> voze...@gridgain.com>: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > We want important emails to be easily observable. This is the >> only >> > >> > goal. >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г. в 21:51, Dmitriy Pavlov < >> dpav...@apache.org>: >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > I suggest to think in another paradigm, let's not classify >> emails >> > >> to >> > >> > be >> > >> > > > > automatically issued or not, lets separate emails to other >> > >> classes: a >> > >> > > > > needed action from humans or not needed. >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > If you don't have any interest in a change announced by JIRA >> issue >> > >> > > > created >> > >> > > > > email, you can just skip. If you can help with comments, >> review, >> > >> > etc, you >> > >> > > > > can become watcher or comment ticket, you can also point to >> > >> > duplicate. >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > In that paradigm, >> > >> > > > > A) PR is perfectly ok to be redirected to notifications@ .- >> PR >> > >> > creation >> > >> > > > > does not require any action from anyone. >> > >> > > > > B) JIRA - I'm not sure (maybe as a second step, if we will >> see >> > >> > > > contributors >> > >> > > > > will write about important tickets). And instead we can >> discuss >> > >> Open >> > >> > -> >> > >> > > > > Patch available transition, as a reviewer needed. >> > >> > > > > C) TC Bot - I'm sure - should never be redirected. >> Hopefully, it >> > >> > will not >> > >> > > > > generate any alerts. >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > I hardly understand goal: is our target metric - message >> count to >> > >> be >> > >> > as >> > >> > > > > less as possible? (extreme - 0 emails, let's not write here >> at >> > >> all, >> > >> > we >> > >> > > > can >> > >> > > > > get 0). Who can explain what do we want from redirection? >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г. в 16:28, Sergi Vladykin < >> > >> > sergi.vlady...@gmail.com>: >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > I also would like to separate all the automated stuff. >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > Sergi >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г. в 13:58, Павлухин Иван < >> > >> vololo...@gmail.com>: >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > Oleg, >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > I join to Dmitriy. I found your summary quite >> interesting. >> > >> > > > > > > пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г. в 13:12, Dmitriy Pavlov < >> > >> dpav...@apache.org >> > >> > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > Oleg, >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > excellent research! It allows me to avoid bothering >> > >> community >> > >> > > > > > developers >> > >> > > > > > > > once again. >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > Thank you for your efforts and for contributing to this >> > >> > discussion. >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > Sincerely, >> > >> > > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 23:14, Denis Magda < >> > >> dma...@apache.org>: >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Let's move git notifications to a separate list. As >> for >> > >> > JIRA, not >> > >> > > > > > sure >> > >> > > > > > > it >> > >> > > > > > > > > bothers me, it took me several minutes to set up all >> the >> > >> > filters >> > >> > > > to >> > >> > > > > > > spread >> > >> > > > > > > > > the messages out across specific folders. Otherwise, >> some >> > >> of >> > >> > us >> > >> > > > > might >> > >> > > > > > > > > ignore subscribing to jira-list and would miss >> > >> notifications >> > >> > when >> > >> > > > > > their >> > >> > > > > > > > > input is needed. >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- >> > >> > > > > > > > > Denis >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 12:03 PM Vladimir Ozerov < >> > >> > > > > > voze...@gridgain.com >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Dmitry, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > I am not referring to some "authoritative ASF >> member" >> > >> as a >> > >> > > > guide >> > >> > > > > > for >> > >> > > > > > > us. >> > >> > > > > > > > > We >> > >> > > > > > > > > > are on our own. What I meant is that at some point >> in >> > >> time >> > >> > we >> > >> > > > > were >> > >> > > > > > > > > pointed >> > >> > > > > > > > > > to an idea, that tons of automated messages has >> nothing >> > >> to >> > >> > do >> > >> > > > > with >> > >> > > > > > > > > healthy >> > >> > > > > > > > > > community. Which seems pretty reasonable to me. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 10:15 PM Dmitriy Pavlov < >> > >> > > > > > dpav...@apache.org> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > What incubator mentor do you refer to? Incubator >> > >> member >> > >> > are >> > >> > > > asf >> > >> > > > > > > members >> > >> > > > > > > > > > as >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > well. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > I was involved at least to 3 discussions at the >> list >> > >> > started >> > >> > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > Jira >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > issue created. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > If others were not involved, it do not convince >> me its >> > >> > is not >> > >> > > > > > > useful to >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > keep forwarding. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г., 21:23 Vladimir Ozerov < >> > >> > > > > > voze...@gridgain.com >> > >> > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitry, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > What Apache member do you refer to? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 21:10, Dmitriy Pavlov < >> > >> > > > > > dpav...@apache.org >> > >> > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know what to watch if new tickets >> are >> > >> not >> > >> > > > > > forwarded? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, PRs are ok to remove since it is >> duplicate >> > >> to >> > >> > > > jira, >> > >> > > > > > but >> > >> > > > > > > jira >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > removal >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > does not make any sense for me. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Com dev folks instead suggest to forward all >> > >> > comments and >> > >> > > > > all >> > >> > > > > > > > > > activity >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > github to the list. So if Apache member will >> > >> confirm >> > >> > it >> > >> > > > is >> > >> > > > > > not >> > >> > > > > > > > > useful >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > to >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > allow dev. list watchers see new issues on >> the >> > >> list >> > >> > we >> > >> > > > can >> > >> > > > > > > continue >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > discussion. Openness is needed not for >> veterans >> > >> but >> > >> > for >> > >> > > > all >> > >> > > > > > > > > community >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > members and users who is subscribed to the >> list. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г., 21:00 Pavel Tupitsyn < >> > >> > > > > > > ptupit...@apache.org>: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personal emails for _watched_ JIRA tickets >> are >> > >> very >> > >> > > > > useful. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emails to everyone are not. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for separate mailing list for all >> automated >> > >> > emails. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think we can avoid automated emails >> > >> > completely, >> > >> > > > > but >> > >> > > > > > > dev >> > >> > > > > > > > > > list >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > should >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be human-only. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So separate list is the only way. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 8:11 PM Vladimir >> Ozerov >> > >> < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > voze...@gridgain.com> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely agree with Denis. Tons of >> generated >> > >> > > > messages >> > >> > > > > > and >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > community >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health are not relevant. Currently we >> > >> obviously >> > >> > have >> > >> > > > > too >> > >> > > > > > > much >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > tickets >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > too little communications. This is bad. >> But >> > >> > whether >> > >> > > > we >> > >> > > > > > > > > accumulate >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > generated >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stuff here or in some other place is not >> > >> > important at >> > >> > > > > > all, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > provided >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > that >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > we >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can point dev-list readers to JIRA >> channel. >> > >> And >> > >> > as >> > >> > > > far >> > >> > > > > as >> > >> > > > > > > > > > generated >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > stuff, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this was one of very serious concerns of >> our >> > >> > mentors >> > >> > > > > > during >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > incubation >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > phase - too many tickets, too little real >> > >> > > > > communications. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Splitting >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > message >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flows will help us understand where we >> are. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And another very interesting thing is >> how PMCs >> > >> > treat >> > >> > > > > all >> > >> > > > > > > these >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > messages - >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they ignore them. When I come with that >> > >> problem, >> > >> > one >> > >> > > > > PMC >> > >> > > > > > > > > proposed >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > solution >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - "just filter them like I do". Then I, >> > >> another >> > >> > PMC, >> > >> > > > > > > answered - >> > >> > > > > > > > > > "I >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > do >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > not >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know how to filter them". Finally, third >> PMC, >> > >> who >> > >> > > > also >> > >> > > > > > > filters >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > these >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages, helped me create proper filter >> in >> > >> > GMail. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it demonstrative enough that so >> many >> > >> PMC, >> > >> > who >> > >> > > > are >> > >> > > > > > > > > expected >> > >> > > > > > > > > > to >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understand project very well and follow >> a lot >> > >> of >> > >> > > > > > > activities, >> > >> > > > > > > > > find >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > it >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > useful >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to *remove* JIRA emails from their >> inboxes in >> > >> > order >> > >> > > > to >> > >> > > > > > ... >> > >> > > > > > > well >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ... >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understand what is going on. If Ignite >> > >> veterans >> > >> > do >> > >> > > > not >> > >> > > > > > find >> > >> > > > > > > > > these >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > generated >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > emails useful, then I do not know who >> else can >> > >> > > > benefit >> > >> > > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > > > them. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 7:06 PM Denis >> > >> Mekhanikov >> > >> > < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > dmekhani...@gmail.com> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitriy, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do believe Igniters can set up a >> filter. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doesn't mean we should make them do >> it. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do JIRA messages help? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want do discuss something – >> write to >> > >> dev >> > >> > > > list. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want a code review – write to >> dev >> > >> list. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have an announcement – write to >> dev >> > >> > list. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see, how JIRA messages can >> replace >> > >> any >> > >> > of >> > >> > > > > these >> > >> > > > > > > > > points. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Literally nobody ever answered a >> message >> > >> from >> > >> > JIRA >> > >> > > > > bot. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think, that only watchers of JIRA >> tickets >> > >> > should >> > >> > > > be >> > >> > > > > > > > > notified >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > about >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > updates. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no point in sending messages >> to >> > >> > everyone. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:50, Dmitriy >> > >> Pavlov < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > dpav...@apache.org >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do believe Igniters can set up a >> filter. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JIRA ticket is an intention to be >> done by >> > >> > > > > > contributors >> > >> > > > > > > in >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > future. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If PMC member admits decisions are >> made >> > >> off >> > >> > the >> > >> > > > > list >> > >> > > > > > > and >> > >> > > > > > > > > just >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > provided >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fact-in-the-past for others - it >> really >> > >> signs >> > >> > > > poor >> > >> > > > > > > > > community >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > health. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me, it is not reasonable to fight >> with >> > >> JIRA >> > >> > > > > messages >> > >> > > > > > > it is >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > reasonable >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > grow a culture of on-list >> development. If >> > >> we >> > >> > > > don't >> > >> > > > > > > have it, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > JIRA >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remain here. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:30, Denis >> > >> > Mekhanikov < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dmekhani...@gmail.com >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitriy, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we want people to act openly and >> > >> > > > > > > community-friendly, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > then >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > we >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it a part of the required >> development >> > >> > process. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise people just won't care >> about >> > >> it. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, all JIRA tickets are >> open for >> > >> > > > everyone, >> > >> > > > > > so >> > >> > > > > > > no >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > openness >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > violated if we made a separate >> mailing >> > >> > list for >> > >> > > > > > bots. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JIRA tickets are just as easy to >> search >> > >> > > > through, >> > >> > > > > as >> > >> > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > emails. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you write anything to the dev >> list, >> > >> then >> > >> > > > only >> > >> > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > once, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > who >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > spent >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > half >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an hour, configuring the email >> filters >> > >> > will see >> > >> > > > > it. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others won't notice it, because it >> will >> > >> get >> > >> > > > lost >> > >> > > > > > > among >> > >> > > > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > flood >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > of >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spam >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages from bots. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are interested in receiving >> the >> > >> JIRA >> > >> > > > > > > > > notifications, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > you >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > could >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > subscribe to ignite-bots (or even >> > >> > ignite-jira) >> > >> > > > > > > mailing >> > >> > > > > > > > > > list, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and keep track of what happens >> there. It >> > >> > would >> > >> > > > > > > simplify >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > filtering, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you should only filter out the >> > >> > corresponding >> > >> > > > > > > recipient. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently if you want to filter >> out all >> > >> > > > messages >> > >> > > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > > > bots, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > you >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enumerate all possible topics, >> that bots >> > >> > may >> > >> > > > > > > generate. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And since the number of bots only >> grows >> > >> > with >> > >> > > > > time, >> > >> > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > filter >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kept in actual state, otherwise >> messages >> > >> > will >> > >> > > > > spill >> > >> > > > > > > into >> > >> > > > > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > inbox. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:58, >> Dmitriy >> > >> > Pavlov < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > dpav...@apache.org >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Denis, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another side of this decision is >> the >> > >> > openness >> > >> > > > > of >> > >> > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > development. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since not all contributors pay >> > >> attention >> > >> > to >> > >> > > > run >> > >> > > > > > > their >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > development >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > open/community friendly manner: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - to announce important >> features, and >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Telegraph their intent >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Draft designs openly >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Submit work in chunks >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Welcome feedback along the way >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> >> http://shaneslides.com/apachecon/TheApacheWay-ApacheConNA2018.html#24 >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we can't just remove JIRA from >> the >> > >> list. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today JIRA forwarding is an only >> way >> > >> to >> > >> > keep >> > >> > > > > > Ignite >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > development >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easy >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > follow by subscribing to dev. >> list. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we came to practice that all >> > >> > contributors >> > >> > > > > > > announce >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > important >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and bugs, JIRA can be removed. >> Now it >> > >> > can't. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which problem we can solve by >> removing >> > >> > JIRA >> > >> > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > list? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:34, >> Denis >> > >> > > > Mekhanikov >> > >> > > > > < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dmekhani...@gmail.com >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I vote for moving automatically >> > >> > generated >> > >> > > > > > > messages >> > >> > > > > > > > > to a >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > separate >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailing >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > list (maybe except most >> important >> > >> > ones). >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already wrote about it here: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Bots-on-dev-list-td34406.html >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we have now makes the >> Nabble >> > >> > portal an >> > >> > > > > > > absolute >> > >> > > > > > > > > > mess >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > with >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > no >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ability >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to track human communication. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's even hard to search for >> old >> > >> > > > discussions, >> > >> > > > > > > because >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > messages >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JIRA >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tickets and git commit >> messages pop >> > >> in >> > >> > the >> > >> > > > > > search >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > results. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making every person configure >> email >> > >> > filters >> > >> > > > > is >> > >> > > > > > > > > waisting >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everybody's >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just imagine, how many >> human-hours >> > >> has >> > >> > been >> > >> > > > > > > spent on >> > >> > > > > > > > > > it. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We should respect time of >> others, >> > >> and >> > >> > make >> > >> > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > separation >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > of >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > emails >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sending side. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 13:20, >> > >> Dmitriy >> > >> > > > Pavlov >> > >> > > > > < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpav...@apache.org >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO we need to run a formal >> vote >> > >> on >> > >> > this >> > >> > > > > > > change, >> > >> > > > > > > > > and >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > then >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > PMC >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chair >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > create (or reuse) a separate >> list >> > >> for >> > >> > > > > > messages >> > >> > > > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Git >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > repos. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ср, 14 нояб. 2018 г. в 16:08, >> > >> > Vladimir >> > >> > > > > > Ozerov < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > voze...@gridgain.com >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Igniters, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say that "set the >> > >> filter" >> > >> > is >> > >> > > > not >> > >> > > > > a >> > >> > > > > > > > > > solution. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > First, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always possible >> technically. >> > >> E.g. >> > >> > I use >> > >> > > > > > > GMail and >> > >> > > > > > > > > > my >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dev-list >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > emails >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already use a rule. I >> cannot >> > >> > extract >> > >> > > > > > > generated >> > >> > > > > > > > > > emails >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > overall >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flow >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with GMail capabilities. >> But the >> > >> > more >> > >> > > > > > > important >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > things >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > - >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first place someone needs >> to >> > >> went >> > >> > > > through >> > >> > > > > > > that >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > generated >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nightmare? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Git messages is a spam. >> Looks >> > >> like >> > >> > > > > everyone >> > >> > > > > > > > > agrees >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > with >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > far >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JIRA ticket creation - >> this is >> > >> all >> > >> > > > about >> > >> > > > > > > > > > importance. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > When >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > writes >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email to the devlist, this >> is >> > >> > likely to >> > >> > > > > be >> > >> > > > > > > > > > important >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > topic >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requiring >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attention. When someone >> creates >> > >> a >> > >> > > > ticket, >> > >> > > > > > > most >> > >> > > > > > > > > > likely >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > this >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > either a >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bug, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a piece of already >> discussed >> > >> > issue, or >> > >> > > > > so. >> > >> > > > > > In >> > >> > > > > > > > > other >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > words - >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > average >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > devlist >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > user is likely to be >> interested >> > >> in >> > >> > > > manual >> > >> > > > > > > > > messages >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > and >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unlikely >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be interested in "Ticket >> > >> created" >> > >> > > > > messages. >> > >> > > > > > > Not >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > important >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > information >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > overshadows important. >> Let's >> > >> > continue >> > >> > > > > > > disucssion >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > this. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as Git - what >> should be >> > >> > done to >> > >> > > > > > > remove Git >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > messages >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > list? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at >> 6:49 PM >> > >> > Dmitriy >> > >> > > > > > > Pavlov < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpavlov....@gmail.com >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Petr, some manual >> digest, is >> > >> > probably >> > >> > > > > not >> > >> > > > > > > > > needed >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > because >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > list >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > allows >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > subscribing to digest. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dev-digest-subsr...@ignite.apache.org >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remember >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this correctly. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 6 нояб. 2018 г. в >> 18:28, >> > >> Petr >> > >> > > > > Ivanov >> > >> > > > > > < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mr.wei...@gmail.com >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can be Jira >> notifications >> > >> > united in >> > >> > > > > > some >> > >> > > > > > > kind >> > >> > > > > > > > > > of >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > daily >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > digest? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe we can add >> special >> > >> filter >> > >> > > > (new >> > >> > > > > > > tasks / >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > updates >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > during >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > last >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 24 >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hours) >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with notification >> scheme? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6 Nov 2018, at >> 18:15, >> > >> > Dmitriy >> > >> > > > > > > Pavlov < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpavlov....@gmail.com >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should mention I >> > >> disagree >> > >> > to >> > >> > > > > remove >> > >> > > > > > > JIRA >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > issues >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > as >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > step. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > helps everyone to >> > >> understand >> > >> > what >> > >> > > > > > other >> > >> > > > > > > > > > people >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > are >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > going >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > project. You always >> can >> > >> > comment >> > >> > > > if >> > >> > > > > > it >> > >> > > > > > > is >> > >> > > > > > > > > not >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > the >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > best >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > approach, >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find a >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > duplicate issue, and >> you >> > >> may >> > >> > > > > suggest >> > >> > > > > > > help. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PR notification is >> more or >> > >> > less >> > >> > > > > > > duplicates >> > >> > > > > > > > > > JIRA >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > (as 1 >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JIRA >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1..* >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PR), >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may be ok to move >> Git's >> > >> > messages >> > >> > > > to >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> notificati...@ignite.apache.org >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < >> > >> > notificati...@ignite.apache.org >> > >> > > > б> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we should keep >> JIRA >> > >> and >> > >> > test >> > >> > > > > > > failures. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 6 нояб. 2018 г. в >> > >> 17:49, >> > >> > > > Alexey >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Kuznetsov < >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > akuznet...@apache.org >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi! >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I have filter for >> e-mail >> > >> > from >> > >> > > > JIRA >> > >> > > > > > > (very >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > useful, I >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > can >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quick >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > search >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > issue >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> there without >> visiting >> > >> > JIRA). >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> And I'm just >> deleting >> > >> tons >> > >> > of >> > >> > > > > > e-mails >> > >> > > > > > > from >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > GitBox >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > & >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PRs. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I don't know what >> for we >> > >> > need >> > >> > > > > them? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> May by we try to >> move >> > >> > GitBox & >> > >> > > > > > > PRs-related >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > mails >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > first >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -- >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Alexey Kuznetsov >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > -- >> > >> > > > > > > Best regards, >> > >> > > > > > > Ivan Pavlukhin >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > Ivan Pavlukhin >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Ivan Pavlukhin >> >>
