"Then I am clearly not a smart person."

your words. I am only pointing out that the interpretation of 
unionDefaultGraph and mixed FROM/FROM NAMED clauses is not as obvious as 
you seem to imply.

"FROM and also including the union is a no-op anyway. "

that is your statement and it seems that this is how TDB/Jena is 
implemented. However, that does not mean it is obvious or intuitive

"What is relevant in the spec is that the dataset description is supposed 
to be "complete".

So no FROM should mean empty graph regardless.  That seemed unhelpful so 
ARQ deviates."

yes, I think that was an interpretation going around here (based on the 
spec) as well and agreed, that is not helpful. 

I know that standards are sometimes intentionally vague to satisfy 
different communities. However, that does not make it helpful. 

"But one FROM definitely does mean one graph."

if unionDefaultGraph=false, yes. The spec is inclear what happens when 
unionDefaultGraph=true and I would not be surprised if there are stores 
out there implementing this differently

"There are bugs anyway - try asking for an explicitly named union with 
the union flag on - it'll stackoverflow."

can you be more specific? 

As for 304, you can close it, but perhaps with a reference to this e-mail 
thread for future reference

thanks

SImon



From:
Andy Seaborne <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Date:
08/24/2012 11:45 AM
Subject:
Re: mixing FROM and FROM NAMED with unionDefaultGraph=true



On 24/08/12 16:24, Simon Helsen wrote:
> Andy,
>
> Although this is perhaps a matter of taste, I discussed this issue with 
a
> few smart people here who all intuitively assumed that
> unionDefaultGraph=true would automatically merge graphUri2 into the
> default graph even if explicitly defined as in the following query:
>
> FROM <graphUri1>
> FROM NAMED <graphUri2>

Then I am clearly not a smart person.

Did you ask those people how to specify exactly

FROM <graphUri1>
FROM NAMED <graphUri2>

when the global unionDefaultGraph is set?

FROM and also including the union is a no-op anyway.  It adds nothing as 
the graph triples are already there

> The unionDefaulGraph parameter should be treated as part of the query
> semantics and you are simply overruling it with your implementation.
> That there is a way to formulate the same semantics is irrelevant.

I think it is consistent - if you say what the default graph is in the 
query, then it is that.

> It adds
> complexity when clients use FROM/FROM NAMED and defaultUnionGraph=true
>
> Btw, the exact behavior of these clauses in the context of
> defaultUnionGraph seems to be notably absent in the spec. That is too 
bad

The editor of this part of the SPARQL 1.0 spec created a careful balance 
between different viewpoints.  Having the default graph as the (fixed) 
union was common but in many engines FROM* means nothing anyway.  Other 
people wanted web semantics (always read from the web).  A third 
community wanted "contexts".  A fourth group wanted independent graphs.

All this switchable, namable union business is non-standard that's why 
the URI of the union graph is <urn:x-arq:UnionGraph>.

What is relevant in the spec is that the dataset description is supposed 
to be "complete".

So no FROM should mean empty graph regardless.  That seemed unhelpful so 
ARQ deviates.

But one FROM definitely does mean one graph.

                 Andy

There are bugs anyway - try asking for an explicitly named union with 
the union flag on - it'll stackoverflow.

>
> Simon
>
> PS: my mail clients adds the sender automatically in cc. I agree that it
> is annoying and will try to recall removing it, but at the same time, I
> have had countless cases were you cc-ed me in exactly the same way.

Presumably because that's the way you send the email.  "reply list" is 
picking up cc's you included.



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