Hi Chris, Thanks a lot for your inputs!
> would provide a simple, clean interface for developers to determine > which features are supported by the version of the Connect runtime > that their plugin has been deployed onto I do like the idea of having such a public compatibility library - I think it would remove a lot of restrictions from framework development if it were to be widely adopted. > we might consider adding an API to "ack" sink records I agree that this does seem like a more intuitive and clean API, but I'm concerned about the backward compatibility headache we'd be imposing on all existing sink connectors. Connector developers will have to maintain two separate ways of doing offset management if they want to use the new API but continue supporting older versions of Kafka Connect. For now, I've reverted the KIP to the previous iteration which proposed the addition of a new `SinkRecord` method to obtain the original Kafka topic pre-transformation. One thing to note is that I've removed the method for obtaining the original Kafka partition after a cursory search showed that use cases for partition modifying SMTs are primarily on the source connector side. Thanks, Yash On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 9:22 PM Chris Egerton <chr...@aiven.io.invalid> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have more comments I'd like to make on this KIP when I have time (sorry > for the delay, Yash, and thanks for your patience!), but I did want to > chime in and say that I'm also not sure about overloading SinkTask::put. I > share the concerns about creating an intuitive, simple API that Yash has > raised. In addition, this approach doesn't seem very sustainable--what do > we do if we encounter another case in the future that would warrant a > similar solution? We probably don't want to create three, four, etc. > overloaded variants of the method, each of which would have to be > implemented by connector developers who want to both leverage the latest > and greatest connector APIs and maintain compatibility with connect > Clusters running older versions. > > I haven't been able to flesh this out into a design worth publishing in its > own KIP yet, but one alternative I've pitched to a few people with > generally positive interest has been to develop an official compatibility > library for Connect developers. This library would be released as its own > Maven artifact (separate from connect-api, connect-runtime, etc.) and would > provide a simple, clean interface for developers to determine which > features are supported by the version of the Connect runtime that their > plugin has been deployed onto. Under the hood, this library might use > reflection to determine whether classes, methods, etc. are available, but > the developer wouldn't have to do anything more than check (for example) > `Features.SINK_TASK_ERRANT_RECORD_REPORTER.enabled()` to know at any point > in the lifetime of their connector/task whether that feature is provided by > the runtime. > > One other high-level comment: this doesn't address every case, but we might > consider adding an API to "ack" sink records. This could use the > SubmittedRecords class [1] (with some slight tweaks) under the hood to > track the latest-acked offset for each topic partition. This way, connector > developers won't be responsible for tracking offsets at all in their sink > tasks (eliminating issues with the accuracy of post-transformation T/P/O > sink record information), and they'll only have to notify the Connect > framework when a record has been successfully dispatched to the external > system. This provides a cleaner, friendlier API, and also enables more > fine-grained metrics like the ones proposed in KIP-767 [2]. > > [1] - > > https://github.com/apache/kafka/blob/9ab140d5419d735baae45aff56ffce7f5622744f/connect/runtime/src/main/java/org/apache/kafka/connect/runtime/SubmittedRecords.java > [2] - > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-767%3A+Connect+Latency+Metrics > > Cheers, > > Chris > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 11:21 AM Yash Mayya <yash.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Randall, > > > > It's been a while for this one but the more I think about it, the more I > > feel like the current approach with a new overloaded `SinkTask::put` > method > > might not be optimal. We're trying to fix a pretty corner case bug here > > (usage of topic mutating SMTs with sink connectors that do their own > offset > > tracking) and I'm not sure that warrants a change to such a central > > interface method. The new `SinkTask::put` method just seems somewhat odd > > and it may not be very understandable for a new reader - I don't think > this > > should be the case for a public interface method. Furthermore, even with > > elaborate documentation in place, I'm not sure if it'll be very obvious > to > > most people what the purpose of having these two `put` methods is and how > > they should be used by sink task implementations. What do you think? > > > > Thanks, > > Yash > > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 9:33 PM Yash Mayya <yash.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Randall, > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your valuable feedback so far! I've updated the KIP > > based > > > on our discussion above. Could you please take another look? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Yash > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 12:40 AM Randall Hauch <rha...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 11:45 AM Yash Mayya <yash.ma...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > Hi Randall, > > >> > > > >> > Thanks for elaborating. I think these are all very good points and I > > see > > >> > why the overloaded `SinkTask::put` method is a cleaner solution > > overall. > > >> > > > >> > > public void put(Collection<SinkRecord> records, Map<SinkRecord, > > >> > TopicPartition> updatedTopicPartitions) > > >> > > > >> > I think this should be > > >> > > > >> > `public void put(Collection<SinkRecord> records, Map<SinkRecord, > > >> > TopicPartition> originalTopicPartitions)` > > >> > > > >> > instead because the sink records themselves have the updated topic > > >> > partitions (i.e. after all transformations have been applied) and > the > > >> KIP > > >> > is proposing a way for the tasks to be able to access the original > > topic > > >> > partition (i.e. before transformations have been applied). > > >> > > > >> > > >> Sounds good. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Of course, if the developer does not need separate methods, they > can > > >> > easily have the older `put` method simply delegate to the newer > > method. > > >> > > > >> > If the developer does not need separate methods (i.e. they don't > need > > to > > >> > use this new addition), they can simply continue implementing just > the > > >> > older `put` method right? > > >> > > > >> > > >> Correct. We should update the JavaDoc of both methods to make this > > clear, > > >> and in general how the two methods should are used and should be > > >> implemented. That can be part of the PR, and the KIP doesn't need this > > >> wording. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Finally, this gives us a roadmap for *eventually* deprecating the > > >> older > > >> > method, once the Connect runtime versions without this change are > old > > >> > enough. > > >> > > > >> > I'm not sure we'd ever want to deprecate the older method. Most > common > > >> sink > > >> > connector implementations do not do their own offset tracking with > > >> > asynchronous processing and will probably never have a need for the > > >> > additional parameter `Map<SinkRecord, TopicPartition> > > >> > originalTopicPartitions` in the proposed new `put` method. These > > >> connectors > > >> > can continue implementing only the existing `SinkTask::put` method > > which > > >> > will be called by the default implementation of the newer overloaded > > >> `put` > > >> > method. > > >> > > > >> > > >> +1 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > the pre-commit methods use the same `Map<TopicPartition, > > >> > OffsetAndMetadata> currentOffsets` data structure I'm suggesting be > > >> used. > > >> > > > >> > The data structure you're suggesting be used is a `Map<SinkRecord, > > >> > TopicPartition>` which will map `SinkRecord` objects to the original > > >> topic > > >> > partition of the corresponding `ConsumerRecord` right? To clarify, > > this > > >> is > > >> > a new data structure that will need to be managed in the > > >> `WorkerSinkTask`. > > >> > > > >> > > >> Ah, you're right. Thanks for the correction. > > >> > > >> Best regards, > > >> Randall > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks, > > >> > Yash > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 1:20 AM Randall Hauch <rha...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Hi, Yash. > > >> > > > > >> > > I'm not sure I quite understand why it would be "easier" for > > connector > > >> > > > developers to account for implementing two different overloaded > > >> `put` > > >> > > > methods (assuming that they want to use this new feature) versus > > >> using > > >> > a > > >> > > > try-catch block around `SinkRecord` access methods? > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Using a try-catch to try around an API method that *might* be > there > > >> is a > > >> > > very unusual thing for most developers. Unfortunately, we've had > to > > >> > resort > > >> > > to this atypical approach with Connect in places when there was no > > >> good > > >> > > alternative. We seem to relying upon pattern because it's easier > for > > >> us, > > >> > > not because it offers a better experience for Connector > developers. > > >> IMO, > > >> > if > > >> > > there's a practical alternative that uses normal development > > practices > > >> > and > > >> > > techniques, then we should use that alternative. IIUC, there is at > > >> least > > >> > > one practical alternative for this KIP that would not require > > >> developers > > >> > to > > >> > > use the unusual try-catch to handle the case where methods are not > > >> found. > > >> > > > > >> > > I also think having two `put` methods is easier when the Connector > > >> has to > > >> > > do different things for different Connect runtimes, too. One of > > those > > >> > > methods is called by newer Connect runtimes with the new behavior, > > and > > >> > the > > >> > > other method is called by an older Connect runtime. Of course, if > > the > > >> > > developer does not need separate methods, they can easily have the > > >> older > > >> > > `put` method simply delegate to the newer method. > > >> > > > > >> > > Finally, this gives us a roadmap for *eventually* deprecating the > > >> older > > >> > > method, once the Connect runtime versions without this change are > > old > > >> > > enough. > > >> > > > > >> > > I think the advantage of going with the > > >> > > > proposed approach in the KIP is that it wouldn't require extra > > >> > > book-keeping > > >> > > > (the Map<SinkRecord, > > >> > > > TopicPartition> in `WorkerSinkTask` in your proposed approach) > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > The connector does have to do some of this bookkeeping in how they > > >> track > > >> > > the topic partition offsets used in the `preCommit`, and the > > >> pre-commit > > >> > > methods use the same `Map<TopicPartition, OffsetAndMetadata> > > >> > > currentOffsets` > > >> > > data structure I'm suggesting be used. > > >> > > > > >> > > I hope that helps. > > >> > > > > >> > > Best regards, > > >> > > > > >> > > Randall > > >> > > > > >> > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 9:38 AM Yash Mayya <yash.ma...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Randall, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Thanks for reviewing the KIP! > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > That latter logic can get quite ugly. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I'm not sure I quite understand why it would be "easier" for > > >> connector > > >> > > > developers to account for implementing two different overloaded > > >> `put` > > >> > > > methods (assuming that they want to use this new feature) versus > > >> using > > >> > a > > >> > > > try-catch block around `SinkRecord` access methods? In both > > cases, a > > >> > > > connector developer would need to write additional code in order > > to > > >> > > ensure > > >> > > > that their connector continues working with older Connect > > runtimes. > > >> > > > Furthermore, we would probably need to carefully document how > the > > >> > > > implementation for the older `put` method should look like for > > >> > connectors > > >> > > > that want to use this new feature. I think the advantage of > going > > >> with > > >> > > the > > >> > > > proposed approach in the KIP is that it wouldn't require extra > > >> > > book-keeping > > >> > > > (the Map<SinkRecord, > > >> > > > TopicPartition> in `WorkerSinkTask` in your proposed approach) > and > > >> also > > >> > > the > > >> > > > fact that the try-catch based logic is an already established > > >> pattern > > >> > > > through > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-610%3A+Error+Reporting+in+Sink+Connectors > > >> > > > and other KIPs which added methods to source/sink connector/task > > >> > > contexts. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Let me know if you still feel that having a new overloaded put > > >> method > > >> > is > > >> > > a > > >> > > > cleaner solution and I'd be happy to reconsider! > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > > >> > > > Yash > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 11:18 PM Randall Hauch < > rha...@gmail.com> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Hi, Yash. Thanks for picking up this KIP and discussion. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > The KIP includes this rejected alternative: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. Update SinkTask.put in any way to pass the new > information > > >> > outside > > >> > > > > > SinkRecord (e.g. a Map or a derived class) > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > - > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Much more disruptive change without considerable pros > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > One advantage about doing this is that sink connector > > >> implementations > > >> > > can > > >> > > > > more easily implement two different "put(...)" methods to > handle > > >> > > running > > >> > > > in > > >> > > > > a variety of runtimes, without having to use try-catch logic > > >> around > > >> > the > > >> > > > > newer SinkRecord access methods. That latter logic can get > quite > > >> > ugly. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > For example, the existing `put` method has this signature: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > public abstract void put(Collection<SinkRecord> records); > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > If we added an overloaded method that passed in a map of the > old > > >> > > > > topic+partition for each record (and defined the absence of an > > >> entry > > >> > as > > >> > > > > having an unchanged topic and partition): > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > public void put(Collection<SinkRecord> records, > Map<SinkRecord, > > >> > > > > TopicPartition> updatedTopicPartitions) { > > >> > > > > put(records); > > >> > > > > } > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > then a `SinkTask` implementation that wants to use this new > > >> feature > > >> > > could > > >> > > > > simply implement both methods: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > public void put(Collection<SinkRecord> records) { > > >> > > > > // Running in an older runtime, so no tracking of SMT-modified > > >> topic > > >> > > > names > > >> > > > > or partitions > > >> > > > > put(records, Map.of()); > > >> > > > > } > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > public void put(Collection<SinkRecord> records, > Map<SinkRecord, > > >> > > > > TopicPartition> updatedTopicPartitions) { > > >> > > > > // real logic here > > >> > > > > } > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > This seems a lot easier than having to use try-catch logic, > yet > > >> still > > >> > > > > allows sink connectors to utilize the new functionality and > > still > > >> > work > > >> > > > with > > >> > > > > older Connect runtimes. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > WDYT? > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Randall > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 7:03 AM Yash Mayya < > yash.ma...@gmail.com > > > > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi all, > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I would like to (re)start a new discussion thread on KIP-793 > > >> (Kafka > > >> > > > > > Connect) which proposes some additions to the public > > SinkRecord > > >> > > > interface > > >> > > > > > in order to support topic mutating SMTs for sink connectors > > >> that do > > >> > > > their > > >> > > > > > own offset tracking. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Links: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > KIP: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=191336830 > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Older discussion thread: > > >> > > > > > > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/00kcth6057jdcsyzgy1x8nb2s1cymy8h, > > >> > > > > > > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/rzqkm0q5y5v3vdjhg8wqppxbkw7nyopj > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Jira: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-13431 > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks, > > >> > > > > > Yash > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >
