On Thu, Dec 28, 2023, at 18:17, Justine Olshan wrote: > Hey Colin, > > Some folks were concerned about the lack of automatic unclean leader > election. I mentioned that KIP-966 would actually be better with its > aggressive recovery option. > I think folks were hoping for some availability over durability solution > for KRaft, so if we don't do KIP-966 we should provide an alternative or be > able to convince ourselves it is not needed.
Hi Justine, That's a fair point. We should specify in KIP-1012 that we need to have some way to configure the system to automatically do unclean leader election. If we run out of time implementing KIP-966, this could be something quite simple, like honoring the static unclean.leader.election = true configuration. > > I think while many folks decided KIP-853 was a blocker, there were a lot of > other features that many folks were expecting so I don't think we can say > definitively the only must-have is KIP-853 (and hence the discussion thread > here :) ) > > Also as an aside, I filed a ticket to remove ZK from the top of the > quickstart guide. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-15975 > Yeah. There is a bunch of docs and quickstart cleanup that we should do. I don't think any of it is a blocker for 3.8 or 4.0, but the new year is a good time to clean things up. best, Colin > Justine > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 5:12 PM Colin McCabe <cmcc...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Hi Josep, >> >> Thanks for the KIP. Based on the discussions we had previously, I agree >> that we need a 3.8. >> >> It would be good to link to KIP-833 in the motivation section, since this >> KIP builds on that one. >> >> Also, I think we should mention in KIP-1012 that 3.8 will be a >> general-purpose release that may add some new features. This was something >> that we were on the fence about previously, so it would be good to clarify >> it here. >> >> On another note. I don't think KIP-966 is a "must-have" for Kafka 3.8, as >> the KIP currently states. I certainly hope that it makes it for 3.8, but if >> it doesn't, it can go into 4.0. It's not needed for migration, so it could >> just as easily go into 4.0 as 3.8. The only thing that KIP-966 really needs >> is "KIP-853: KRaft Controller Membership Changes." >> >> Along these lines, I think we should drop the language about "strategic >> feature parity with Zookeeper." Kafka isn't competing with ZooKeeper, and >> doesn't need feature parity with it. For example, ZK implemented >> Netty-TcNative OpenSSL Support, but we don't have that (and probably won't >> in 3.8). We probably won't add this -- or if we do, it won't be so that we >> can have "parity with ZK." Really the only must-have in 3.8 is KIP-853, and >> we should be clear about that. >> >> I think we should start issuing a deprecation log message at ERROR level >> when brokers start up in ZK mode. This message could point out that some >> safety mechanisms and new features will not be available in ZK mode, and >> give a link to our documentation about migration. >> >> We should probably also move the example configurations for kraft from >> config/kraft to config. And move the zk ones into config/zk. Or maybe even >> drop the ZK ones altogether, since they're not needed for migration or >> upgrade. >> >> best, >> Colin >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 22, 2023, at 04:37, Josep Prat wrote: >> > On this note, I'd like to add that I would volunteer to be the release >> > manager of such release 3.8.0. >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 1:31 PM Josep Prat <josep.p...@aiven.io> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi all! >> >> As agreed on the "Road to Kafka 4.0" email thread, I created KIP-1012 to >> >> discuss and I'd like to open it up for discussion: >> >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1012%3A+The+need+for+a+Kafka+3.8.x+release >> >> >> >> Let's use this KIP to: >> >> a) Leave a papertrail agreement for the need of a 3.8 version >> >> b) Define which KIPs are the must-haves in regards to KRaft that should >> be >> >> included there. >> >> >> >> Please let me know your feedback and suggestions. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> -- >> >> [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> >> >> >> >> *Josep Prat* >> >> Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* >> >> josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 >> >> aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud> >> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> < >> https://twitter.com/aiven_io> >> >> *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> >> Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin >> >> Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> >> Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> >> > >> > *Josep Prat* >> > Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* >> > josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 >> > aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | < >> https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud> >> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> < >> https://twitter.com/aiven_io> >> > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin >> > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >>
