Hello all Sorry for my delayed response. Thanks for your feedback and comments. Please see below:
> Do you plan to have a development version of the website online in parallel to the old HTML version? Yes. The current prototype which supports all versions until AK 3.9 is running at https://kafka-site-md-711970345036.us-central1.run.app/, the prototype <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1133%3A+AK+Documentation+and+Website+in+Markdown#KIP1133:AKDocumentationandWebsiteinMarkdown-Prototype> section of the KIP has more details. We should be able to host this in ASF infra. Further, as described in the KIP >I understand that locally with the markdown files and an markdown editor, we see the rough structure of the docs (which is already an improvement), but we will not see the end product, because for that we again need a web server. Hugo supports live reload making local development easier (ref: https://github.com/hvishwanath/kafka-site-md/blob/main/Makefile#L25) [MM1] Yes., I have ensured that all existing auto generated documentations (html files under javadoc, generated folders) are available at the same relative location as they are in the current website. You can see this in the prototype. For example: https://kafka.apache.org/39/javadoc/org/apache/kafka/clients/consumer/ConsumerConfig.html#main(java.lang.String%5B%5D) is available at https://kafka-site-md-711970345036.us-central1.run.app/39/javadoc/org/apache/kafka/clients/consumer/ConsumerConfig.html#main(java.lang.String%5B%5D) <https://kafka-site-md-711970345036.us-central1.run.app/39/javadoc/org/apache/kafka/clients/consumer/ConsumerConfig.html#main(java.lang.String%5B%5D)> Furthermore, for production, we can serve this with a full blown web server such as nginx allowing us to set up any required redirects. [MM2] I recommend that we leave any auto generated documentation to continue to be in HTML format. We can serve them as static assets (ref: https://github.com/hvishwanath/kafka-site-md/tree/main/static) >I am also in favor of having easy access to `trunk / SNAPSHOT` version of the docs if possible. Yes, this is definitely possible. Regards, Harish On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 3:01 PM Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi, > > I am totally in favor to make this happen, and I was disappointed each > time in the past, when it was proposed but we did not do it. > > > > Given that it is a huge effort, I am wondering if it would be sufficient > to just to this change for 4.0 release though, and not translate any > older versions at all? > > > For including the docs in the release, I am actually wondering what the > value is? Does anybody actually use these artifact? Of course, we need > to publish JavaDocs, but the content of the web page seems to have very > low value to the community? -- I did also check ASF guidelines about it > and the webpage [1] say: > > > This material may include documentation concerning the release [...] > > So it is optional, but not required to publish docs artifacts from my > understanding. I have no objections to keep publishing the web page > docs, just saying, if the effort is too large and the value to low, we > could consider just dropping it. > > > I am also in favor of having easy access to `trunk / SNAPSHOT` version > of the docs if possible. Some other ASF project do this already, for > example Flink [2]. It's much easier to work with, and allows to spot > issues during development. While it does not help on a PR directly, it > is still a good way to verify a PR after it was merged, so any errors > can be detected and corrected more easily. > > > Also agree to the other raised points about generated content and > permalinks. For permalinks, if effort is reasonable, I would rather try > to redirect as many as possible. > > > > -Matthias > > > > > [1] > https://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#distribute-other-artifacts > [2] https://nightlies.apache.org/flink/flink-docs-master/ > > > On 2/25/25 8:43 AM, David Arthur wrote: > > MM1: I suspect Hugo has some way of doing url redirection, but at the > very > > least we can add redirects in our htaccess file > > https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/blob/asf-site/.htaccess > > > > Excluding the "front matter" (intro, quickstart, powered by, etc) I think > > the main links we need to worry about are the configuration docs pages. > In > > the demo, it looks like we are using the same anchors for specific config > > sections. > > > > E.g., > > > https://kafka-site-md-711970345036.us-central1.run.app/39/configuration/configuration/#topicconfigs_compression.gzip.level > > is the same content as > > > https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#topicconfigs_compression.zstd.level > > > > So maybe it shouldn't be too hard? > > > > Personally, I think the only links we should consider to be "permalinks" > > are the front matter and the documentation pages with the version in the > > URL. The unversioned documentation pages (like > > > https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#topicconfigs_compression.zstd.level > ) > > can change from release to release, so they are not expected to be > > permanent. > > > > Do we have any data on inbound links to the site? Maybe from Google > > Analytics or similar? > > > > -David A > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 10:17 AM Mickael Maison < > mickael.mai...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Harish, > >> > >> This is definitively something we want to do! > >> > >> MM1. One aspect to keep in mind in terms of compatibility is whether > >> existing links will still work. Thousands of online resources link to > >> the Apache Kafka website. Is it possible to keep all links working? > >> > >> MM2. A bunch of sections are generated. To do so we have a number of > >> classes in the public API (for example 0, 1) with toHtml() or main() > >> methods that output HTML. Should we update these to output Markdown > >> directly instead? > >> > >> Converting the website has been discussed several times, I'd suggest > >> checking at least https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-2967 to > >> see what was previously said. > >> > >> 0: > >> > https://kafka.apache.org/39/javadoc/org/apache/kafka/common/config/ConfigDef.html#toHtml() > >> 1: > >> > https://kafka.apache.org/39/javadoc/org/apache/kafka/clients/consumer/ConsumerConfig.html#main(java.lang.String%5B%5D) > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Mickael > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 3:33 PM Bruno Cadonna <cado...@apache.org> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Harish, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the KIP! Great initiative! > >>> > >>> Do you plan to have a development version of the website online in > >>> parallel to the old HTML version? > >>> > >>> I understand that locally with the markdown files and an markdown > >>> editor, we see the rough structure of the docs (which is already an > >>> improvement), but we will not see the end product, because for that we > >>> again need a web server. > >>> > >>> I assume that after you migrated all docs to markdown, we want to see > >>> the complete website, review the content, and make some refinements. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Bruno > >>> > >>> On 23.02.25 07:52, Harish Vishwanath wrote: > >>>> Thank you David. Appreciate your feedback. My comments below: > >>>> > >>>> DA1) I think this is a very good suggestion. While building the > >> prototype, > >>>> I did spend additional effort for older versions of the doc since > >> there are > >>>> fairly significant differences in the structure and format of the > >> documents > >>>> as compared to 3.x versions. I have written the automation which can > do > >>>> this, but I do think hosting the older versions (<3.x) in its current > >>>> format and moving the rest to markdown will reduce the overall > >>>> testing/validation effort. That said, if we foresee making relatively > >>>> frequent updates to older versions, it might be worth converting > >> everything > >>>> to markdown. > >>>> > >>>> DA2) My hunch is that this can be quite involved. Rendering a usable > >> HTML > >>>> version requires all the supporting artifacts (css, js, images, hugo > >>>> shortcodes, partials etc.,) which will only be present in the website > >>>> documentation. Further, the hyper links themselves will not work > >> without > >>>> a webserver. To serve a directory structure based HTML, it will > >> require us > >>>> to have different templates for these docs where dependencies on the > >>>> artifacts I mentioned above will need to be removed, links will need > >> to be > >>>> converted to use relative directory locations etc., > >>>> > >>>> DA3) This is definitely possible. Using tools such as `pandoc` we > >> should be > >>>> able to render plain text versions of markdown files. For ex, the > below > >>>> would create a plain text version of all docs for 39/ branch., which > >> can be > >>>> packaged with the binary distribution. > >>>> > >>>> find docs/ -name "*.md" -type f | while read -r file; do > >>>> dir=$(dirname "$file") > >>>> filename=$(basename "$file" .md) > >>>> mkdir -p "39-ascii/$dir" > >>>> pandoc -f markdown -t plain "$file" -o > >> "39-ascii/$dir/$filename.txt" > >>>> done > >>>> > >>>> DA4) Makes sense. I updated the wiki to reflect this. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Harish > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 8:56 AM David Arthur <mum...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Thanks for the KIP, Harish! > >>>>> > >>>>> I am +100 just on the title alone :) > >>>>> > >>>>> The motivations in the KIP are sound. All of these are very real > >> annoyances > >>>>> when it comes to maintaining our docs. I suspect we have not done > >> anything > >>>>> to improve them since the system we have worked well enough in the > >> past. A > >>>>> better way to say that is: it hasn't been bad enough to motivate us > to > >>>>> change it. > >>>>> > >>>>> With efforts like this, there is always some question about which > >> tool or > >>>>> method we should use. I like that your proposal includes these > >> specifics as > >>>>> well as a complete and functional demo. > >>>>> > >>>>> Few questions: > >>>>> > >>>>> DA1) Do we really need to convert all of our docs to the new thing? > It > >>>>> might be reasonable to draw a line somewhere (maybe 3.0?) and have > >> docs > >>>>> prior to that be hosted elsewhere (kafka.apache.org/old or > >> something). > >>>>> This > >>>>> may or may not be more work than just converting everything. WDYT? > >>>>> > >>>>> DA2) For our packaged docs (those that go in the binaries we > >> distribute), > >>>>> do you think it's possible to render HTML that can be viewed without > a > >>>>> webserver? Currently our packaged docs are kind of useless IMO. It > >> would be > >>>>> better if they could be viewed without any extra effort by an > >> operator. > >>>>> > >>>>> DA3) As a possible alternative to DA2, could we render the markdown > >> docs as > >>>>> ascii text files? This is arguably better for operators since they > >> don't > >>>>> always have a GUI or web browser handy. > >>>>> > >>>>> DA4) Just a nitpick, could you reduce the "Sample directory layout" > >> down to > >>>>> one or two examples? It's difficult to see the versioned vs > >> non-versioned > >>>>> docs in the current block > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks! > >>>>> David A > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Feb 16, 2025 at 2:10 PM Harish Vishwanath < > >>>>> harish.shas...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Following up from my previous email regarding moving AK > >> documentation to > >>>>>> markdown, I wrote KIP-1133 > >>>>>> < > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1133%3A+AK+Documentation+and+Website+in+Markdown > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> detailing > >>>>>> the proposal and would like to start discussions. Please take a > look. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>> Harish > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> David Arthur > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > > > >
