Thanks Lucy and Matthias.




I also lean toward the second approach (the ValueJoinerWithKeys overload).
Although the initial approach is an easier fix, the future for each
approach would be:
  - Under the second approach: one join family — join/leftJoin — with
different joiner flavors. It's internally consistent and learnable from
existing knowledge.

  - Under the first approach: join for some variants and joinByMappedKey
for others — a method name that appears nowhere else in the API, justified
by an internal detail/nuance (mapped key != record key)


Just one thing I'd want to raise: The naming: ValueJoinerWithKeys (plural)
is one character different from the existing "ValueJoinerWithKey"
(singular). Since both live in the same package and appear together in
autocomplete, this naming similarity is an easy long-term footgun (also
confusing). Could we consider a less collision-prone name? I don't have a
great one yet, but I'd raise it now than after it's public.


Thanks
- Alieh


On Fri, Jun 12, 2026 at 3:06 AM Matthias J. Sax <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thanks for digging into the details.
>
> What you found matches my understanding. Overall, it's a tricky
> tradeoff. Personally, I think it's better to keep the more prominent
> API, ie, KStream#join() clean, so the alternative to add
> `ValueJoinerWithKeys` (plural) might be the better tradeoff.
>
> Would be good to also hear from others about it.
>
>
> -Matthias
>
>
> On 6/4/26 12:44 PM, Lucy Liu via dev wrote:
> > Hi Matthias, thanks for the feedback!
> >
> > MJS1: Yes, compile-time, not runtime. I reworded that.
> >
> > MJS2, MJS3, MJS4:
> > I agree that introducing the new methods will lead to name asymmetry. If
> we
> > add a new join/leftJoin overload taking a new functional interface rather
> > than introducing new methods, all stream-globalTable joins could keep the
> > same join/leftJoin naming. So I explored the last rejected alternative
> > further: a new ValueJoinerWithKeys interface `ValueJoinerWithKeys<K1, K2,
> > V1, V2, VR>` with `apply(readOnlyKey, streamKey, value1, value2)`
> exposing
> > both keys, and overloaded the existing join/leftJoin methods to accept
> it.
> > The four ValueJoinerWithKey overloads get @Deprecated as in the original
> > plan, but the migration target is now the new overload rather than a
> > renamed method. The ValueJoiner overloads stay untouched.
> > For example, the new `join` method would be:
> >
> >> <GlobalKey, GlobalValue, VOut> KStream<K, VOut> join(final
> >> GlobalKTable<GlobalKey, GlobalValue> globalTable,
> >>                                                           final
> >> KeyValueMapper<? super K, ? super V, ? extends GlobalKey> keySelector,
> >>                                                           final
> >> ValueJoinerWithKeys<? super GlobalKey, ? super K, ? super V, ? super
> >> GlobalValue, ? extends VOut> joiner);
> >
> >
> > I think this could be a better solution because the overload works
> cleanly,
> > and the joiner allowing both keys offers greater flexibility.
> > This is some draft code changes this approach would introduce:
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/22477__;!!Ayb5sqE7!t-Pgojx5hrlsNZCev0a6uksclbJfRMZotq56k4WSPVrACGz_vECOVEhjiAQqr7bMkJEQqbWHHCtUCY-1$
> >
> > Happy to learn what others think about this approach. If this approach is
> > indeed better, I will update the KIP.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Lucy Liu
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 4:43 PM Matthias J. Sax <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the KIP Lucy.
> >>
> >> Overall, it seems to be a non-controversial proposal, to solve the issue
> >> with new overloads.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> MJS1: The KIP says:
> >>
> >>> The discrepancy is not surfaced at runtime
> >>
> >> What this paragraph describe is a compile time type check, right? Not a
> >> runtime check?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> MJS2: It seems you propose to replace only the 4 methods which take
> >> `ValueJoinerWithKey` argument. While this is the smallest change we
> >> could make, I am wondering if it introduced some name inconsistencies?
> >> So even if technically not necessary, I am wondering if we would get
> >> better UX, if we would also deprecate the 4 method taking `ValueJoiner`?
> >> This way, all method which are doing the same thing, ie
> >> stream-globalTable join have the same name.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> MJS3: About naming the new methods. I guess both `joinOnMappedKey` and
> >> `joinByMappedKey` would work. But I am wondering if
> >> `foreignKeyJoin()`would be good names, too? Or maybe
> >> `globalKTableJoin()`? Just putting forward some alternatives to spark
> >> some thoughts. Naming is always hard. Curious to hear what others think.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> MJS4: About the last rejected alternative. If my assessment is right, it
> >> would have the advantage that we could add new overloads called
> >> `join()`, and thus we would get better method naming overall, and my
> >> point MJS2 from above would become void? I does have the disadvantage
> >> that we need a new interface, but given the naming question, I am
> >> wondering if it would provide an overall better tradeoff? -- Again,
> >> curious to hear what others think.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Matthias
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/27/26 10:17 PM, Lucy Liu via dev wrote:
> >>> Hi Bill,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the suggestions! I have made some changes accordingly.
> >>> BB1: I changed the 4 added methods to use `by` instead of `on`.
> >>> BB2: For each deprecated method, an additional warning comment will be
> >>> added, stressing that the `readOnlyKey` is the stream key and might not
> >> be
> >>> behaving as intended.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Lucy
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, May 27, 2026 at 4:07 PM Bill Bejeck <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Lucy,
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for the KIP! This is a very much needed update to Kafka
> Streams.
> >>>> Overall the KIP looks good.
> >>>>
> >>>> BB1. I have one nit comment with regards to the name.  What would you
> >> think
> >>>> about `joinByMappedKey / leftJoinByMappedKey` instead?
> >>>> BB2. Since the error condition will continue to exist until we remove
> >> the
> >>>> deprecated methods, maybe we could add one line to the Javadoc
> >> explicitly
> >>>> stating that readOnlyKey is currently the stream key, not the mapped
> >> join
> >>>> key.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Bill
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 1:19 PM Lucy Liu via dev <
> [email protected]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gentle ping on this thread. Looking forward to feedback on the KIP!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> Lucy Liu
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 4:19 PM Lucy Liu <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would like to start a discussion on KIP-1340 Pass Join Key to
> >>>>>> `ValueJoinerWithKey` in Streams-GlobalKTable Joins
> >>>>>> <
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1340*3A*Pass*Join*Key*to**A60ValueJoinerWithKey*60*in*Streams-GlobalKTable*Joins__;JSsrKysrJSUrKys!!Ayb5sqE7!sMsc7OEJtzyBJn3kfDmAjAi8gklV-8hDbb2Oiwk_NV0RC8giJPWimU7sX4jc4Niu_29yjxAv1souD4H5kUY$
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This proposal aims to introduce joinOnMappedKey and
> >>>> leftJoinOnMappedKey,
> >>>>>> new KStream methods that pass the mapped join key (the result of the
> >>>>>> user-supplied KeyValueMapper) into ValueJoinerWithKey for
> >>>>>> stream-globalTable joins. The existing join/leftJoin overloads pass
> >> the
> >>>>>> stream record's key into the joiner instead, contradicting KIP-149's
> >>>>>> contract that readOnlyKey is the join key and silently producing
> wrong
> >>>>>> values if a joiner intends to read the real join key. The existing
> >>>>>> overloads will be deprecated and removed in a future major release.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>> Lucy Liu
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

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