Hi Federico,

Truncation-on-fetch was introduced in 2.7, but had edge cases, which were
fixed later. Commits like fcc7c2de391 and 8e211eb72f9 didn't go into 2.7.
There were also other fixes like KAFKA-12996 that came later than 2.8.0,
though that one is in 2.8.1. There may be others too. 3.0.x seems like a
safe option where we can expect truncation-on-fetch to be reliable.

Regards,

Rajini


On Tue, Nov 3, 2026 at 5:40 AM Federico Valeri <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Rajini and Michael. Maintenance is a fair point and we agree on
> that. Just one question for my understanding, why 3.0 and not 2.7 that
> is where truncation-on-fetch was introduced? Do you see an any
> specific problem related to the Fetch protocol?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2026 at 11:46 AM Mickael Maison <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I agree with Rajini, I'm not sure it's worth re-adding that logic.
> > If the migration/upgrade use case is important for you, targeting 3.0+
> > should already cover a large portion of outdated clusters.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mickael
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2026 at 7:41 PM Rajini Sivaram <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Federico,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the response. I think we removed the old code in
> > > AbstractFetcherThread to reduce complexity and maintenance cost. It
> seems
> > > odd that we would bring back all that complexity in a subclass. Not
> sure if
> > > there are users who are still on old broker versions like 2.1 (unlike
> > > clients). I would have thought that it is sufficient to support 3.0+.
> It
> > > will be good to understand how much compatibility we expect to
> maintain for
> > > 5.0 and beyond. Let's see what others think too.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Rajini
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2026 at 5:58 PM Federico Valeri <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Rajini, thanks for letting us know. The schema is still there and
> we
> > > > think it is important to keep support for 2.1 to help old Kafka
> versions
> > > > users to migrate to latest version, so we would like to reintroduce
> that
> > > > logic just for Cluster Mirroring. Wdyt?
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2026 at 2:39 AM Rajini Sivaram <
> [email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Federico,
> > > > >
> > > > > KIP-1279 currently states that cluster mirroring source clusters
> may be
> > > > > version >= 2.1. We have been removing support for older metadata
> versions
> > > > > and
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> https://github.com/apache/kafka/commit/b234a3a667055d867319c99fd8eca72200c780a8
> > > > > removes the explicit truncating phase that sends
> > > > > OffsetForLeaderEpochRequest from AbstractFetcherThread. So
> inter-broker
> > > > > replication now relies entirely on truncate-on-fetch. Are we
> planning to
> > > > > introduce OffsetForLeaderEpochRequest in the cluster mirroring
> fetcher
> > > > > because we think there is a requirement to migrate from older
> clusters?
> > > > Or
> > > > > are we planning to keep the code simpler and support newer
> clusters only?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > >
> > > > > Rajini
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Sep 7, 2026 at 12:09 PM Rajini Sivaram <
> [email protected]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Federico! The solutions for both RS25 and RS27 sound good.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rajini
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2026 at 5:12 PM Federico Valeri <
> [email protected]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Hi Rajini,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >Not sure about RS25, but you mentioned you are looking into it
> again,
> > > > > so
> > > > > >> will wait for the response after that.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The clamping first attempts to read LSO and LEO from the local
> > > > > >> ReplicaManager, which is an in-memory lookup against the local
> > > > > >> UnifiedLog instance. This works for any partition the
> coordinator
> > > > > >> broker happens to host a replica for. For partitions without a
> local
> > > > > >> replica, the coordinator falls back to the Admin listOffsets
> API,
> > > > > >> which internally routes the request to the partition leader and
> > > > > >> returns the offsets. We resolve all mirror partition offsets
> once at
> > > > > >> the beginning of each sync cycle, then reuse them for every
> group. Not
> > > > > >> one call per partition or per group.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> KIP Updated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > For RS27, not supporting unclean leader election for older
> clients
> > > > may
> > > > > >> be ok unless the fix is straightforward.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> We think it is possible to support old versions with the
> following
> > > > > >> strategy:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> We detect the source cluster's fetch version dynamically. On
> the first
> > > > > >> fetch request, the fetcher thread always includes
> lastFetchedEpoch in
> > > > > >> the request builder. The NetworkClient then queries ApiVersions
> from
> > > > > >> the source cluster and selects the latestUsableVersion. Two
> outcomes
> > > > > >> are possible:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 1. Source supports fetch v12+: the request succeeds with
> > > > > >> lastFetchedEpoch, and truncation proceeds via the
> truncation-on-fetch
> > > > > >> path.
> > > > > >> 2. Source does not support fetch v12: NetworkClient throws
> > > > > >> UnsupportedVersionException. We catch it, disable
> truncation-on-fetch,
> > > > > >> and fall back to the OffsetsForLeaderEpochRequest path.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> This handles both old and new source clusters, including live
> upgrades
> > > > > >> and downgrades.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Unclean leader election handling:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Previously we only handled unclean leader election (ULE) in the
> > > > > >> truncation-on-fetch case. To support older clusters via
> > > > > >> OffsetsForLeaderEpochRequest, we apply the same principle: log
> > > > > >> truncation should never happen on the destination cluster during
> > > > > >> mirroring because we only fetch committed data. If an
> > > > > >> OffsetsForLeaderEpochResponse does trigger truncation, that
> truncation
> > > > > >> must originate from a ULE on the source cluster. In that case,
> we
> > > > > >> transition to the ULE_RECOVERY state and wait for all replicas
> to
> > > > > >> catch up (when mirror.unclean.leader.election.enable=true).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> To guarantee that all destination truncations come from source
> ULEs,
> > > > > >> we store the "last mirror offset and last mirror epoch" in the
> LME
> > > > > >> record. Originally, the LME phase one truncated records with
> epoch
> > > > > >> greater than the LME epoch, then phase two relied on normal
> > > > > >> replication to handle log divergence. The problem: some
> truncations
> > > > > >> are side effects of mirroring setup (e.g. reverse mirroring),
> not
> > > > > >> ULEs.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Example (cluster A mirrors from cluster B):
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Cluster A (dest)     <----  Cluster B (source)
> > > > > >> Offset 0: A (LE: 0)          Offset 0: A (LE: 0)
> > > > > >> Offset 1: A (LE: 0)          Offset 1: A (LE: 0)
> > > > > >> Offset 2: A (LE: 0)          Offset 2: PID_RESET (LE: 10)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> When cluster A receives the first OffsetsForLeaderEpochResponse
> or
> > > > > >> fetch response from cluster B, offset 2 on cluster A gets
> truncated.
> > > > > >> This truncation is not caused by a ULE. Without the last mirror
> offset
> > > > > >> and epoch in the LME record, we cannot distinguish it from a
> real ULE.
> > > > > >> By storing these values in the LME record, the LOG_ALIGNMENT
> state
> > > > > >> truncates only records where: record offset <= last mirror
> offset, AND
> > > > > >> record epoch <= last mirror epoch. This correctly truncates
> offset 2
> > > > > >> in the example above during LOG_ALIGNMENT. After alignment
> completes,
> > > > > >> any subsequent truncation on the destination is guaranteed to
> > > > > >> originate from a source cluster ULE.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Let us know if you are good with this solution. KIP update will
> > > > follow.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thanks
> > > > > >> Fede
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>

Reply via email to