Thanks for the comments Ismael and Jason.

Regarding the OutOfOrderSequenceException, it is more likely when you
enable idempotence and have acks=1, simply because you have a greater
probability of losing acknowledged data with acks=1, and the error code
indicates that.

The particular scenario is that a broker acknowledges a message with
sequence N before replication happens, and then crashes. Since the message
was acknowledged the producer increments its sequence to N+1. The new
leader would not have received the message, and still expects sequence N
from the producer. When it receives N+1 for the next message, it will
return an OutOfOrderSequenceNumber, correctl/y indicating some previously
acknowledged messages are missing.

For the idempotent producer alone, the OutOfOrderSequenceException is
returned in the Future and Callback, indicating to the application that
some acknowledged data was lost. However, the application can continue
producing data using the producer instance. The only compatibility issue
here is that the application will now see a new exception for a state which
went previously undetected.

For a transactional producer, an OutOfOrderSequenceException is fatal and
the application must use a new instance of the producer.

Another point about acks=1 with enable.idempotence=true. What semantics are
we promising here? Essentially we are saying that the default mode would be
'if a message is in the log, it will occur only once, but all acknowledged
messages may not make it to the log'. I don't think that this is a
desirable default guarantee.

I will update the KIP to indicate that with the new default, applications
might get a new 'OutOfOrderSequenceException'.


On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Ismael Juma <> wrote:

> Hi Jason,
> Thanks for the correction. See inline.
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 5:13 PM, Jason Gustafson <>
> wrote:
> > Minor correction: the OutOfOrderSequenceException is not fatal for the
> > idempotent producer and it is not necessarily tied to the acks setting
> > (though it is more likely to be thrown with acks=1).
> Right, it would be worth expanding on the specifics of this. My
> understanding is that common failure scenarios could trigger it.
> > It is used to signal
> > the user that there was a gap in the delivery of messages. You can hit
> this
> > if there is a pause on the producer and the topic retention kicks in and
> > deletes the last records the producer had written. However, it is
> possible
> > for the user to catch it and simply keep producing (internally the
> producer
> > will generate a new ProducerId).
> I see, our documentation states that it's fatal in the following example
> and in the `send` method. I had overlooked that this was mentioned in the
> context of transactions. If we were to enable idempotence by default, we'd
> want to flesh out the docs for idempotence without transactions.
> * try {
> *     producer.beginTransaction();
> *     for (int i = 0; i < 100; i++)
> *         producer.send(new ProducerRecord<>("my-topic",
> Integer.toString(i), Integer.toString(i)));
> *     producer.commitTransaction();
> * } catch (ProducerFencedException | OutOfOrderSequenceException |
> AuthorizationException e) {
> *     // We can't recover from these exceptions, so our only option is
> to close the producer and exit.
> *     producer.close();
> * } catch (KafkaException e) {
> *     // For all other exceptions, just abort the transaction and try
> again.
> *     producer.abortTransaction();
> * }
> * producer.close();
> Nevertheless, pre-idempotent-producer code
> > won't be expecting this exception, and that may cause it to break in
> cases
> > where it previously wouldn't. This is probably the biggest risk of the
> > change.
> >
> This is a good point and we should include it in the KIP.
> Ismael

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