On Feb 3, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Christian Schneider wrote:

> Hi Guillaume and the whole Karaf team,
> 
> as I was involved in the discussion I would like to provide my point of view.
> 
> I really like that karaf is as small as it is and it should stay this way. 
> The only problem that I had was that the jre.properties deployed with karaf 
> did not work with the
> camel-cxf feature. So how can this be solved? One way is simply better 
> documentation on the karaf or camel wiki. Additionally the jre.properties 
> from servicemix
> could be delivered in the karaf distro as e.g. jre.properties.servicemix or 
> something. So it is easier for people to switch them.
> 
> It would also be nice to have some feature urls already in karaf so people do 
> not need to search them. They could be either directly included or should be 
> easily activated. So for example karaf could know where the feature xmls of 
> camel and activemq are in maven and then people could do something like: 
> "features:addurl camel 2.6.0" perhaps even with content assist. On the other 
> hand a wiki page with the list of the mvn: urls for all important feature 
> xmls would already be good enough.
> 
> I have not followed the profiles discussion but the current state of having 
> feature urls and being able to install them with some commands sounds easy 
> enough for me.
> 
> The only thing that could be easier is installing features without an 
> internet connection. It would be nice to have some command to download all 
> installable features into a karaf directory so afterwards
> no internet connection is necessary. The camel feature plugin does this for 
> distributions but it would be nice if users could do this simply from the 
> command line.
> 

It seems to me that some of these ideas are not infinitely extensible.  If 
everyone and their dog set up their projects to generate a karaf feature/kar we 
won't be able to track all of them.  This may not be a problem for a long time 
though :-)

SImilarly I'm not sure what you mean by "all installable features".  A kar file 
gives you the option of installing any number of bundles and config info and 
features from a single file.  These are now easy to create with the 
feature-maven-plugin.  Does this seem sufficiently useful?

thanks
david jencks


> Best regards
> 
> Christian
> 
> -- 
> ----
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
> 
> 
> 
> Am 04.02.2011 00:07, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>> Yeah, the problem is that Karaf itself isn't a container for Camel or
>> CXF and we have some users that just want to plain JRE without any
>> tweaks for running SAAJ because they don't care.
>> ServiceMix on the other hand is dedicated to host such applications,
>> so that's why the default config works better.
>> I'm ok with the idea of profiles in karaf, but we need to make sure we
>> don't end up with having to include and depend on all apache projects,
>> as Karaf itself has imho no purpose of becoming a default distribution
>> of CXF, Camel, ActiveMQ, Directory, etc...
>> I think each project could easily provide a karaf features so that
>> they would easily be deployed in a bare Karaf, but at some point, it
>> does not really scale nor make sense to put everything back into
>> Karaf.
>> 
>> Tweaking the system properties is sometimes needed depending on what
>> you need to deploy, because OSGi is lacking on certain areas (or
>> because the JVM isn't really modular, depending on how you see
>> things).  Some people are happy with using the JAXB implementation
>> from the JVM without being able to change it easily, some people may
>> want to be able to deploy those as OSGi bundles.  Karaf can't do both
>> at the same time.
>> 
>> Another point, is that the amount of third party dependencies is
>> becoming increasingly important in Karaf, and that's really becoming a
>> problem for simply releasing Karaf in an efficient manner.
>> So I'm tempted to say that we should push back on those projects and
>> have them provide karaf features, rather than having karaf providing
>> features for those.  I'm mostly thinking here about pax-web and the
>> war support (which is really cool, no doubt on that) and aries and
>> support for things we don't embed by default (jpa, etc..).
>> 
>> I certainly don't have a good answer yet, but I just want to make sure
>> everyone is aware of the potential problem.
>> 
>> If we keep adding dependencies, our release cycles will necessarily be
>> longer and longer ....  For example camel has a release cycle of one
>> minor version every few months, ServiceMix even less, while CXF has
>> much less external dependencies and manage to keep a high frequency of
>> releases.  2.2 could have been shipped early december, but we were
>> waiting for aries.  Now aries has been released, but we still have
>> some snapshots dependencies on some felix or ops4j components.  And
>> we've added stuff that's not completely stabilized.
>> 
>> Once again, I'm just trying to state facts so that everybody
>> understand the situation.  I'm personnaly not really happy that the
>> 2.2 release is planned since 2 months but still can't get out and I
>> think it clearly means that we're going in a wrong direction somehow
>> ....
>> 
>> Sorry for the rant.  There are a bunch of unrelated things here, ...
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<[email protected]>  wrote:
>>> Claus already raised a Jira about that.
>>> 
>>> Guillaume wasn't very ok to set the jre.properties by default.
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, I launched a discussion thread about Karaf profiles. It's
>>> typically the kind of tuning which is part of a profiles.
>>> 
>>> Waiting for the profiles design, we can provide a Karaf Enterprise
>>> distribution including this kind of tuning related to Camel/CXF/SMX.
>>> 
>>> I add Karaf dev mailing list to see what the team says :)
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>> 
>>> On 02/02/2011 11:21 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
>>>> Are these adapted jre.properties only usefull for Servicemix and the
>>>> Talend Service Factory or do you think it would make sense to change them 
>>>> in
>>>> the karaf distribution.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards
>>>> 
>>>> Christian
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: Jean-Baptiste Onofré [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Februar 2011 11:02
>>>> An: [email protected]
>>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Problem when starting camel-cxf in karaf
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, you can take a look on the ServiceMix one too :)
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> JB
>>>> 
>>>> On 02/02/2011 10:26 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
>>>>> I think I was able to solve the problem. I had to change the
>>>>> jre.properties to exclude some packages from the system bundle export.
>>>>> The jre.properties from the Talend Service Factory seem to work:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://de.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-service-factory-community-edition.php
>>>>> 
>>>>> Christian
>>>>> 
> 

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