On Feb 3, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Christian Schneider wrote: > Hi Guillaume and the whole Karaf team, > > as I was involved in the discussion I would like to provide my point of view. > > I really like that karaf is as small as it is and it should stay this way. > The only problem that I had was that the jre.properties deployed with karaf > did not work with the > camel-cxf feature. So how can this be solved? One way is simply better > documentation on the karaf or camel wiki. Additionally the jre.properties > from servicemix > could be delivered in the karaf distro as e.g. jre.properties.servicemix or > something. So it is easier for people to switch them. > > It would also be nice to have some feature urls already in karaf so people do > not need to search them. They could be either directly included or should be > easily activated. So for example karaf could know where the feature xmls of > camel and activemq are in maven and then people could do something like: > "features:addurl camel 2.6.0" perhaps even with content assist. On the other > hand a wiki page with the list of the mvn: urls for all important feature > xmls would already be good enough. > > I have not followed the profiles discussion but the current state of having > feature urls and being able to install them with some commands sounds easy > enough for me. > > The only thing that could be easier is installing features without an > internet connection. It would be nice to have some command to download all > installable features into a karaf directory so afterwards > no internet connection is necessary. The camel feature plugin does this for > distributions but it would be nice if users could do this simply from the > command line. >
It seems to me that some of these ideas are not infinitely extensible. If everyone and their dog set up their projects to generate a karaf feature/kar we won't be able to track all of them. This may not be a problem for a long time though :-) SImilarly I'm not sure what you mean by "all installable features". A kar file gives you the option of installing any number of bundles and config info and features from a single file. These are now easy to create with the feature-maven-plugin. Does this seem sufficiently useful? thanks david jencks > Best regards > > Christian > > -- > ---- > http://www.liquid-reality.de > > > > Am 04.02.2011 00:07, schrieb Guillaume Nodet: >> Yeah, the problem is that Karaf itself isn't a container for Camel or >> CXF and we have some users that just want to plain JRE without any >> tweaks for running SAAJ because they don't care. >> ServiceMix on the other hand is dedicated to host such applications, >> so that's why the default config works better. >> I'm ok with the idea of profiles in karaf, but we need to make sure we >> don't end up with having to include and depend on all apache projects, >> as Karaf itself has imho no purpose of becoming a default distribution >> of CXF, Camel, ActiveMQ, Directory, etc... >> I think each project could easily provide a karaf features so that >> they would easily be deployed in a bare Karaf, but at some point, it >> does not really scale nor make sense to put everything back into >> Karaf. >> >> Tweaking the system properties is sometimes needed depending on what >> you need to deploy, because OSGi is lacking on certain areas (or >> because the JVM isn't really modular, depending on how you see >> things). Some people are happy with using the JAXB implementation >> from the JVM without being able to change it easily, some people may >> want to be able to deploy those as OSGi bundles. Karaf can't do both >> at the same time. >> >> Another point, is that the amount of third party dependencies is >> becoming increasingly important in Karaf, and that's really becoming a >> problem for simply releasing Karaf in an efficient manner. >> So I'm tempted to say that we should push back on those projects and >> have them provide karaf features, rather than having karaf providing >> features for those. I'm mostly thinking here about pax-web and the >> war support (which is really cool, no doubt on that) and aries and >> support for things we don't embed by default (jpa, etc..). >> >> I certainly don't have a good answer yet, but I just want to make sure >> everyone is aware of the potential problem. >> >> If we keep adding dependencies, our release cycles will necessarily be >> longer and longer .... For example camel has a release cycle of one >> minor version every few months, ServiceMix even less, while CXF has >> much less external dependencies and manage to keep a high frequency of >> releases. 2.2 could have been shipped early december, but we were >> waiting for aries. Now aries has been released, but we still have >> some snapshots dependencies on some felix or ops4j components. And >> we've added stuff that's not completely stabilized. >> >> Once again, I'm just trying to state facts so that everybody >> understand the situation. I'm personnaly not really happy that the >> 2.2 release is planned since 2 months but still can't get out and I >> think it clearly means that we're going in a wrong direction somehow >> .... >> >> Sorry for the rant. There are a bunch of unrelated things here, ... >> >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<[email protected]> wrote: >>> Claus already raised a Jira about that. >>> >>> Guillaume wasn't very ok to set the jre.properties by default. >>> >>> On the other hand, I launched a discussion thread about Karaf profiles. It's >>> typically the kind of tuning which is part of a profiles. >>> >>> Waiting for the profiles design, we can provide a Karaf Enterprise >>> distribution including this kind of tuning related to Camel/CXF/SMX. >>> >>> I add Karaf dev mailing list to see what the team says :) >>> >>> Regards >>> JB >>> >>> On 02/02/2011 11:21 AM, Christian Schneider wrote: >>>> Are these adapted jre.properties only usefull for Servicemix and the >>>> Talend Service Factory or do you think it would make sense to change them >>>> in >>>> the karaf distribution. >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> >>>> Christian >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: Jean-Baptiste Onofré [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Februar 2011 11:02 >>>> An: [email protected] >>>> Betreff: Re: AW: Problem when starting camel-cxf in karaf >>>> >>>> Yeah, you can take a look on the ServiceMix one too :) >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> JB >>>> >>>> On 02/02/2011 10:26 AM, Christian Schneider wrote: >>>>> I think I was able to solve the problem. I had to change the >>>>> jre.properties to exclude some packages from the system bundle export. >>>>> The jre.properties from the Talend Service Factory seem to work: >>>>> >>>>> http://de.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-service-factory-community-edition.php >>>>> >>>>> Christian >>>>> >
