Hi David,

I take a quick look on apache karaf (minimal and full) assemblies generated with
the new MOJOs.

I see the following issues:
- no information files are presents in the assemblies: README, NOTICE, LICENSE,
RELEASE-NOTES
- no bin folder containing the startup scripts
- I think that the apache-karaf-full should be named apache-karaf, I'm afraid to
loose the users the the full suffix.
- could you explain the function of all features files in system repo ?
system$ find . -name "*.xml"
./org/apache/karaf/assemblies/features/enterprise/3.0.0-SNAPSHOT/enterprise-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT-features.xml
./org/apache/karaf/assemblies/features/standard/3.0.0-SNAPSHOT/standard-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT-features.xml
./org/apache/karaf/assemblies/features/karaf-full/3.0.0-SNAPSHOT/karaf-full-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT-features.xml
./org/apache/karaf/assemblies/features/karaf-framework/3.0.0-SNAPSHOT/karaf-framework-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT-features.xml

So in the current state, the new assemblies can not replace the "old" one.

The bin folder is a must have, also the README, NOTICE, etc.

To summarize, here's my -1 to remove the "old" assembly for now.

Regards
JB

On Mon 11/04/11 07:42, "David Jencks" [email protected] wrote:
> I also added a simple karaf-feature-archetype. 
> 
> david jencks
> 
> On Apr 10, 2011, at 2:38 PM, David Jencks wrote:
> 
> > I didn't see where a smx assembly was being built so
> I spent a few minutes on plugin documentation.  I think running mvn site in
> tooling/karaf-maven-plugin produces a reasonably informative
> result.
> 
> > Are we publishing maven generated sites anywhere? 
> I'm not always sure about regular projects' maven sites but the generated
> plugin documentation is usually pretty useful and I think that people
> expect to find it.
> 
> > thanks
> > david jencks
> > 
> > On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Achim Nierbeck
> wrote:
> 
> >> my comments in-line :)
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> I think I left out a step :-) and I'm not
> sure how people are currently packaging the extra files needed for a custom
> server.
>> 
> >> the way I used to do it was to configure a maven
> project for assembly
>> and I configured all my extra bundles as
> dependency in this
>> project, using the assembly plug-in for maven.
> First step was to extract
>> the standard distro of Karaf, add some extra
> bundles
>> add some extra config files, changed some config
> files skipped some
>> config files of the original
> assembly.
>> 
> >>> I'm thinking that you would set up a kar
> project with all the extra files, configuration, etc as well as listing or
> including the bundles, so you can install e.g. servicemix on any karaf
> instance as a kar, and then also set up a karaf-assembly project that
> produces a custom distribution based on that kar as well as everything else
> you want in the server.
>> 
> >> This is a nice idea, and this way I probably
> don't need to edit the
>> startup.properties anymore. I kind of like
> that.
>> As I already stated we need some very good
> documentation to get our
>> users into this boat :)
> >> 
> >>> The framework and full kars I added to
> assemblies/features combined with the new assemblies are one example of
> this technique, but maybe I should try it out on e.g. servicemix also as an
> example.  Is it clear where the servicemix assembly is?
>> 
> >> For this you have to ask JB, he did the last
> release for ServiceMix.
>> 
> >>> thanks
> >>> david jencks
> >>> 
> >>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Achim Nierbeck
> wrote:
>>> 
> >>>> Hi David,
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>>> I assume you are talking about the
> instructions for custom distributions here:
>>>>> 
> >>>>> http://karaf.apache.org/manual/2.2.0/developers-guide/custom-di
> stribution.html
>>>>>> 
> >>>> yes, exactly
> >>>> 
> >>>>> The process described here is
> hideously complex compared to what I'm proposing.  To keep it available we
> need to keep the add-features-to-repo mojo.  If, after comparing equivalent
> old and new style karaf assembly projects, someone wants to keep it,
> fine.
>>>> well, it might be complex but most
> persons I know a very aware of how to
>>>> use the assembly plugin of maven on
> building a
>>>> nice little distribution :)
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Conceptually the main difference I
> see between old and new styles is that the old style relies on unpacking an
> existing distro whereas the new style currently asks you to copy the list
> of features and kars that were assembled into the existing distro.  I think
> I can set up an "uber feature" for each distro so there's only one feature
> going in, so in either style there would be exactly one artifact involved,
> but it might be a good idea to add an "unpack existing distro" mojo so the
> karaf-assembly packaging can also unpack something for you.  In this case I
> think the new style would be equivalent to the old style except you'd list
> the features to add as maven dependencies instead of configuring them in
> the k-m-p plugin configuration, and you' leave out 99% of the
> configuration.
>>>>> 
> >>>>> Have you tried setting up a project
> to do a new-style assembly?  
>>>> No I didn't yet, but will give it a try.
> I just realized this big change.
>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> regards, Achim
> >>>> 
> >>>>> thanks
> >>>>> david jencks
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 10:03 AM, Achim
> Nierbeck wrote:
>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Hi all my comments
> in-line
>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> regards, Achim
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Karaf is complete atomic and
> standalone OSGi container.
>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> It should run by itself (and
> it's still the case).
>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> full ack, for just using camel
> you don't need anything else. This just
>>>>>> as a quick description on how I
> am using Karaf very often.
>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I think it's more logic for
> the projects to be build on top. Anyway,
>>>>>>> I'm not against this new
> change as it could get life easy in the project.
>>>>>>> David, did you launch a
> thread in the past on this mailing list, or
>>>>>>> updated a wiki page
> describing this new philosophy ? Sorry if the
>>>>>>> question is stupid, maybe I
> missed some messages, but I don't remember
>>>>>>> lot of discussion on these
> changes.
>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I did see some mail-threads
> touching parts of this, but somehow I was
>>>>>> missing the big picture
> beforehand.
>>>>>> IMHO for me this move was quite
> fast and a better discussion could have
>>>>>> been helpful.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Let me make some try to have
> a better understanding. Anyway, I didn't
>>>>>>> see any change on the manual
> around the "Karaf Custom Distribution"
>>>>>>> section. It should be
> introduce and described in the manual.
>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> We surely need some very good
> documentation on this move, because we
>>>>>> already have a description for
> how to build a custom distributions and
>>>>>> people are already using it to
> make their own custom distribution. I
>>>>>> used to do this at my former
> company
>>>>>> and I'm sure the guys doing it
> now will get kind of upset if they have
>>>>>> to change a lot on how to make a
> custom distribution.
>>>>>> Just my 2 cent.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I will do that regarding my
> tests on ServiceMix.
>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>> JB
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On 04/08/2011 09:15 PM,
> David Jencks wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'd like to suggest that
> it would be more appropriate for other
>>>>>>>> projects such as
> servicemix to have one or more karaf-assembly
>>>>>>>> packaging projects
> similar to the apache-karaf-framework or
>>>>>>>> apache-karaf-full
> assemblies but including exactly the content
>>>>>>>> wanted, rather than
> starting with a distributed karaf server and
>>>>>>>> modifying it.  That was
> more or less the point of introcuding the
>>>>>>>> karaf-assembly
> packaging.
>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> This is a pretty
> dramatic change in philosophy of what karaf is and
>>>>>>>> how to use it, but I
> think it is easier to use and a lot more
>>>>>>>> flexible.  I think of
> karaf more as a way to construct servers rather
>>>>>>>> than as a particular set
> of content in a server.
>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> thanks
> >>>>>>>> david jencks
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 10:55
> AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Before, I will check
> the impact on some other projects, especially
>>>>>>>>> around the
> groupId/artifactId used.
>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> We made a mistake by
> changing the groupId/artifactId of features, I
>>>>>>>>> don't wanna to have
> the same issue with the distribution assemblies.
>>>>>>>>> Projects like
> ServiceMix use the Karaf distribution in their own
>>>>>>>>> assembly. At least,
> we need to document the new Mojo, the new
>>>>>>>>> distro,
> etc.
>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> I'm gonna make some
> tests with ServiceMix and I will keep you posted.
>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>> JB
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> On 04/08/2011 07:45
> PM, David Jencks wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to
> suggest that we remove the old assemblies/apache-karaf
>>>>>>>>>> and use instead
> the assemblies/apache-karaf-minimal and
>>>>>>>>>>
> apache-karaf-full assemblies constructed using the new mojos. 
> I
>>>>>>>>>> think we can
> also remove a lot of mojos from the karaf-maven-plugin.
>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> With the
> exception of some configuration files, legal files, the
>>>>>>>>>> demo files, and
> the inclusion of o.a.k.shell.ssh in the old minimal
>>>>>>>>>> assembly by
> error, the contents of the corresponding new and old
>>>>>>>>>> assemblies are
> the same.  A few more bundles start in the newer
>>>>>>>>>> servers but I
> think these are errors similar to the inclusion of
>>>>>>>>>> ssh in the
> minimal assemblies.  It would be great if someone more
>>>>>>>>>> familiar with
> karaf history than I would investigate the
>>>>>>>>>> differences and
> advise about what to do.  Basically I assume that
>>>>>>>>>> all the bundles
> in system should be started, so the choices are to
>>>>>>>>>> remove the extra
> bundles from system or to decide that indeed their
>>>>>>>>>> presence is
> correct.
>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure
> what to do with the demos.  It's easy enough to write
>>>>>>>>>> a kar file that
> will unpack the demo content so it will look just
>>>>>>>>>> as it does
> today, but what's there strikes me as sort of horrible. 
>>>>>>>>>> I don't really
> expect a server image to include maven projects that
>>>>>>>>>> I can build to
> add functionality.  I think that it would be a lot
>>>>>>>>>> more appropriate
> to have a customization maven archetype that will
>>>>>>>>>> generate a
> full-featured customization project, and one or two demo
>>>>>>>>>> features that
> can install prebuilt demo applications.
>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking
> about how best to install legal files into assemblies
>>>>>>>>>> and hope to have
> a suggestion in the next few days.
>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> The current
> apache-karaf builds some kind of source distribution. 
>>>>>>>>>> I haven't looked
> into exactly what it is but suggest that the
>>>>>>>>>> source distros
> produced by the apache release profile are sufficient.
>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Related to this
> suggestion I think it would be great if some of the
>>>>>>>>>> other projects
> that use karaf such as servicemix, activemq,
>>>>>>>>>> directory (?)
> tried out the new packagings to build custom server
>>>>>>>>>> assemblies.  I
> will try to write up some documentation and maven
>>>>>>>>>> archetypes for
> this in the next few days.
>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>
> thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>
> thanks
>>>>>>>>>> david
> jencks
>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >> 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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