Agreed, just the console and basic commands could be enough I suppose. I think removing the console would make things more difficult as users won't be able to install additional features easily.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 14:30, Jamie G. <[email protected]> wrote: > Sounds good Christian. > > Back to the larger theme, we appear to be making head way in reducing > the overall size of the distribution with the Aether issue reviewed > above, now to reducing convenience features in Karaf to make it > 'minimal'... > > The goal here would be to define the lowest possible set of features > to make Karaf useful, but very feature bare? > > In this case removing diagnostics, management, some deployer support, > and possibly even JAAS or instance admin could be considered. We could > go as far to reduce logging support as well. How bare bones a > distribution can we design while still being useful enough to not > cause heavy frustration (if everyone has to immediately add back a > particular feature then we should probably not remove it). > > Cheers, > Jamie > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Christian Schneider > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Especially for 2.x I can remove it. Currently I only use it to convert from >> maven coords to artifact. That probably will also make it easier to use the >> same code on karaf 3. So we could simply wait till aether finishes the move >> to eclipse and offers bundles. >> >> Christian >> >> >> Am 03.01.2012 13:59, schrieb Guillaume Nodet: >> >>> Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just >>> for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x >>> branch. >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will >>>> help to resolve this. >>>> >>>> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just >>>> internally >>>> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will >>>> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working >>>> till >>>> now so I did not yet commit. >>>> >>>> Christian >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet: >>>> >>>>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package, >>>>> but not really aether. >>>>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the >>>>> full aether api. >>>>> >>>>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install >>>>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev >>>>> commands. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The pax url dep came from me. I wanted to discuss this anyway. For >>>>>> what >>>>>> I >>>>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could >>>>>> replace >>>>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting to >>>>>> provide >>>>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions of >>>>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This >>>>>> would >>>>>> allow content assist for mvn urls. >>>>>> >>>>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should we >>>>>> get >>>>>> rid of it again? >>>>>> >>>>>> Christian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest >>>>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes demos >>>>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 23K >>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 43K >>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 25K >>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar -> 38K >>>>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar -> 630K >>>>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar -> 320K >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction in >>>>>>> size to become 'minimal'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar >>>>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar >>>>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar >>>>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar >>>>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar >>>>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar >>>>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar >>>>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar >>>>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal) >>>>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar >>>>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal) >>>>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar >>>>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev is >>>>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheesr, >>>>>>> Jamie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Guillaume, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate why. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks !! >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> JB >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between 2.x and 3.x. >>>>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb. >>>>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded by >>>>>>>>> default >>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much lighter ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net >>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Christian Schneider >>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de >>>>>> >>>>>> Open Source Architect >>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Christian Schneider >>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de >>>> >>>> Open Source Architect >>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Christian Schneider >> http://www.liquid-reality.de >> >> Open Source Architect >> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com >> -- ------------------------ Guillaume Nodet ------------------------ Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ ------------------------ Open Source SOA http://fusesource.com
