Francisco, This discussion should provide enough heads-up, and community members should be able to engage in this ML to express their concerns.
But as I wrote before, this is not about the user's perspective, it's about active development and focus. So far in this thread there's some push back to remove components, but no commitment from anyone to keep investing in their development. If you, Debabrata and any other are committed to maintain any specific component proposed to be removed, the discussion might have a better chance to be preserved. So far, I saw and heard more concerns from active committers about the shared burden to carry over those components and the overall impact of keeping those. On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 9:05 AM Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti <ftira...@redhat.com> wrote: > > Alex, we know the team one of the most active community contributors on > Zulip ( Debabrata Patnaik) is using MongoDB for their product. > So removing that without a previous warning will not be welcomed. > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 2:31 PM Alex Porcelli <porce...@apache.org> wrote: > > > The question is not about usage, but the effort to keep components > > that haven't been actively maintained. > > > > The components suggested (including MongoDB) haven’t been actively > > developed and keeping those for the 10 release might send the wrong message > > regarding continued investment and focus. > > > > Maybe not releasing then creates an opportunity to hear community feedback, > > that might end up helping us prioritize areas of investments. > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 7:59 AM Tristan Radisson <radtri...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > My 2 cents: > > > > > > I think we should keep MongoDB implementation. > > > As far as I remember from Zulip, there are quite some people using it. > > > Others are less important. > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 12:38 PM Tibor Zimányi <tzima...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > I was about to write something similar as Enrique. There are two > > aspects > > > > now: > > > > - What should we release as part of 10? > > > > - What should be part of the release in the future? > > > > > > > > I agree, it might be better to start with a minimal set in 10 to reduce > > > the > > > > maintenance costs and then we could build on top of that. Part of > > > kiegroup > > > > in the past was the experimental nature, where we had multiple smaller > > > > projects, that ended in the community, however later they just become a > > > > maintenance burden (even if used for a very small set of use cases) - > > > > remember e.g. droolsjbpm-integration repository, Fuse integration etc. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Tibor > > > > > > > > Dňa po 18. 12. 2023, 12:23 Enrique Gonzalez Martinez < > > > egonza...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > napísal(a): > > > > > > > > > I do agree in removing or at least setting aside those componentes > > that > > > > are > > > > > not our primary focus. > > > > > > > > > > As Alex suggested this increases the overhead and we don' t really > > have > > > > > many hands for now. > > > > > > > > > > I would say that if we don't agree in remove them, at least move > > those > > > to > > > > > another repo outside the apache kie. That will make > > > > > 1. Its influence won't be a burden to any calls that needs to be made > > > > > regarding codebase. > > > > > 2. It is better start with a minimal set of funcional things working > > > and > > > > > let it grow by need than try to do too much. > > > > > 3. Reduce the effort / expertise require to sustain the codebase. > > > > > 4. Shift the effort to general use cases that are more likely to be > > > used > > > > by > > > > > users. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El lun, 18 dic 2023, 12:05, Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me> > > escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > There’s no proposal yet, this is just a discussion… it’s expected > > > that > > > > a > > > > > > proposal will emerge from here. > > > > > > > > > > > > The discussion is an invite to revisit the complex matrix of > > > > > dependencies + > > > > > > any codebase that hasn’t been much maintained that could be cleaned > > > up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now to be more specific to persistence, it’s clear that all > > > investments > > > > > has > > > > > > been focused mostly on Postgres. If Oracle has been properly and > > > > actively > > > > > > maintained it’s also a good candidate to be kept. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 5:59 AM Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < > > > > > > ftira...@redhat.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in order to be more precise about what we are discussing, I > > > guess > > > > > the > > > > > > > proposal (at least part of it) is to keep only one implementation > > > of > > > > > > > persistence for data index, the postgresql one. Is my > > understanding > > > > > > > correct? > > > > > > > Or keep Oracle and Postgresql and remove Infinipan and MongoDB? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 11:54 AM Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < > > > > > > > ftira...@redhat.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think my point is that value is not that marginal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 11:53 AM Alex Porcelli < > > > > porce...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Francisco, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> The question is not about the potential value those components > > > > > > provide… > > > > > > > >> it’s about the cost associated to maintain those for the > > > marginal > > > > > > value > > > > > > > >> they provide. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> There’s a ripple effect for every component we carry over, > > > adding > > > > a > > > > > > > >> complex > > > > > > > >> matrix of additional resources to be managed like container > > > > images, > > > > > > CVEs > > > > > > > >> associated with them (and their transient dependencies) + all > > > the > > > > > > extra > > > > > > > CI > > > > > > > >> time to build the matrix. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 5:05 AM Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti > > < > > > > > > > >> ftira...@redhat.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Anyway, I'm currently refactoring data index persistence, > > > > > including > > > > > > > >> changes > > > > > > > >> > in Storage interface (shared with trusty), so maybe we > > should > > > > > table > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > discussion after that PR is done. Although removing > > infinispan > > > > and > > > > > > > >> MongoDB > > > > > > > >> > will save me substantial work, I truly believe keeping them > > > adds > > > > > > value > > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > > >> > our platform, so I still vote for keeping. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 11:02 AM Francisco Javier Tirado > > > Sarti < > > > > > > > >> > ftira...@redhat.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > I think having "secondary" addons that illustrate platform > > > > > > extension > > > > > > > >> > > capabilities beyond the one we are prioritizing: > > postgresql > > > > is a > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > >> > > value. > > > > > > > >> > > Therefore I vote for keeping them, except maybe > > Infinispan. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 6:49 PM Alex Porcelli < > > > > > > porce...@apache.org> > > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> As we gear up for the much-anticipated 10.0.0 release, I > > > > invite > > > > > > > >> > >> everyone to a crucial discussion about refining our > > > codebase. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > >> > >> not just about what we're adding but also about what we > > > might > > > > > > > >> consider > > > > > > > >> > >> removing or changing for the better. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> The following are initial suggestions for components we > > > might > > > > > > > >> deprecate: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> - Infinispan > > > > > > > >> > >> - MongoDB > > > > > > > >> > >> - Redis > > > > > > > >> > >> - Elastic > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> However, this list is just a starting point. I encourage > > > each > > > > > of > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > >> > >> to contribute your thoughts. If there are other > > components > > > > you > > > > > > > >> believe > > > > > > > >> > >> should be on this list, please bring them forward. > > > Likewise, > > > > if > > > > > > any > > > > > > > >> of > > > > > > > >> > >> the listed components should remain, your input is > > equally > > > > > > > valuable. > > > > > > > >> > >> Explain your reasons so we can all understand the > > benefits > > > of > > > > > > > keeping > > > > > > > >> > >> them. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> The TrustyAI codebase is also up for discussion. It > > hasn't > > > > > been a > > > > > > > >> > >> primary focus for a while, and while I see some potential > > > in > > > > > it, > > > > > > > >> > >> setting it aside might be more practical for now. But > > > > remember, > > > > > > no > > > > > > > >> > >> decision here is permanent. We can always revisit any > > > > > component, > > > > > > > >> > >> especially if there's a collective interest in its > > > > maintenance > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > >> development. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> Your opinions and expertise are vital in this process. > > > Let's > > > > > work > > > > > > > >> > >> together to make these decisions unanimously, ensuring > > our > > > > > > > project's > > > > > > > >> > >> long-term success and manageability. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> - > > > > > > > >> > >> Alex > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > >> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org
