[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Summarizing...
thanks for this overview!
Non-techies just get confused by greyed options. They are less
confused by changing menus.
imnsho changing menus are the most evil thing that has happened to user
interfaces in the last years.
i frequently do tech support for applications i don't use myself, and i
rely on my general computer skills to figure out what can be done and
how. greyed-out options clearly tell me "you can do it in principle, but
not right now". (an additional mouse-over telling me "this option only
applies if you do this or that" would be heaven.)
the same "exploration technique" is used by advanced users, and as
andreas points out, in some (most?) lenya deployments you have dedicated
web authors with a high skill level, as opposed to a large number of
casual users.
changing menus leave me without any idea what could be done when i'm in
the wrong context, they constantly change the necessary mouse motions as
the menus keep getting shorter and longer, and make memorizing options
harder for people who rely on visual "layout" cues (such as, "hmm, this
option used to be at the bottom of some obscure 'extras' menu..., oh
wait, now it's at the top!")
if a program is not "clever" and does not change gui all the time, i can
even recognize and possibly work around most (usability) bugs, rather
than thinking it just doesn't work.
=== Jörn Nettingsmeier ===
- Does not like scrolling.
- Thinks my interface makes it easier for newbies.
- Thinks my interface makes it less productive for experienced users.
Everything should be easy for newbies, because everybody is a newbie
for some time. Most people will use Lenya infrequently. When they
come back next month, they have forgotten where the controls are
hidden. Keeping everything obvious keeps it productive for everybody.
i think this assumption is not universally valid, as andreas points out.
It is possible to have "beginner" and "advanced" interfaces, but the
development effort of an "advanced" UI is not worth it for the
extremely few people who switch after learning the "beginner" UI.
same point applies.
- Suggests removing the top-level tabs.
i hope i have not opened a side issue here that distracts from the main
point you were discussing...
to re-iterate, my main reason to suggest getting rid of the top level
tabs is to save screen space for the editing area.
=== Scrolling
Go look at any popular web interface (such as Amazon) with information
that cannot fit on a single screen. There are 2 methods for dealing
with it:
1. If the information is sequential, use multiple pages: the Wizard interface.
2. Use scrolling.
you are not taking into account whether the user interaction is
sequential or random-access.
when creating a new page, there will be a rather uniform, directional
workflow: first i do this, then that, and so on. this is great for what
you call wizard interfaces.
but for later changes of a website, i might want to jump right to a
page's asset management or access control, and having to click through
10 useless wizard pages to get there would annoy the heck out of me.
tabs are actually a nice solution here imho: you can have a "next" link
at the bottom, which will create a wizard-like feeling for the new user,
and tabs allow the proficient user direct access to relevant functions.
Companies complain they lose visitors when using the Wizard interface,
because people do not want to complete several pages, although
progress indicators reduce the incompletes.
this "losing visitors" argument seems to indicate that they are talking
about attracting casual visitors, not about usability for frequent
users. in a lenya deployment, people will have to use it no matter what,
so the initial appeal becomes less of an issue.
There are no popular web interfaces that depend on tabs. The closest
is Email Folders, but most people just keep everything in Inbox.
that is probably because web interfaces are mostly aimed at casual
users. and that's also why most web interfaces suck baaaad when used
frequently.
SWAT, the samba web admin tool, is a good counter-example: it does use a
tab-like structure, and it is made for admins. (but it does have a
scrolling problem, so i won't advertise it as the solution for lenya's ui.)
Advanced users tend to use the keyboard more than the mouse. They
understand they can hit PageDown twice to get to all the information
in the GUI. They use the Tab key to quickly advance through the
fields. They should never be a concern when designing a GUI.
ok. i was going to add that scrolling interfaces cause more switching
between mouse and keyboard, but if tab hopping is implemented
throughout, that is less of an issue. (my browser occasionally hiccups
on tab sequencing, so i could not use that feature when looking at your
demo page.)
best,
jörn
--
"Án nýrra verka, án nútimans, hættir fortíðin að vekja áhuga."
"Without new works, without the present the past will cease to be of
interest."
- Ásmundur Sveinsson (1893-1982)
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier, EDV-Administrator
Institut für Politikwissenschaft
Universität Duisburg-Essen, Standort Duisburg
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Telefon: 0203/379-2736
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