Let's me add my two cents there.While SF or ZF may be good frameworks what would be the tangible benefits to move to any of them? That is beside making us happy to know we are using the latest trend in development framework. And, would those benefits offset the effort to do a major refactoring, once again should I say? Could we decrease code size significantly? Could we implement new functionalities, for example templates a la smarty, that would be visible to the end user?
I am certainly not against assessing those two frameworks and possibly moving to them but only once we have completed the work at hand. I certainly aggree that for now we should focus on supporting production moves. That is correcting bugs, adding needed new functionalities, etc.
Then I think it would help to see a few examples on how we could use any of those two framework to make our life easier. Personnaly I don't have enough time at hand to have a deep look into those frameworks so having a few examples would help me make an opinion.
Cheers Le 31.03.2011 08:17, Sven Vanpoucke a écrit :
Hi AllThe last few days i took a big look at how symfony and doctrine work. I must say that i'm impressed about the possibilities of the two frameworks.However... We are currently at the point where all the available developers need to deliver something between july / september. This means that we do not have the resources to integrate an entire new framework. I really really hope that after going in production and solving the first production issues the core developers of the product can spend some time again on these things.I do feel that using an entire framework at this stage of development is as hans already stated just a bridge to far. This would mean that we would need to change our entire architecture and i believe that if we would do that we could really forget new releases in the following years. I do agree that both SF2 / ZF2 have some very interesting features but i propose that we try to learn as much as possible from these frameworks so we can make our own chamilo framework even better.But if you can find me at least 20 developers who can maintain the current product and fix all the remaining issues then i'm not opposed to spend time on changing these things entirely ;)Best regards Sven Op 30/03/11 22:55, Nautile Bleu schreef:Ok ... so this is a tough one. Please not that the following is a mildlysarcastic joke: while we're at it ... could we please just move to Java for Chamilo 2. That would solve most problems and frustrations and give us access to a complete set of widely supported libraries that have really proven themselves (Hibernate, anyone?)If leaves to change, I then preferred that we move to Python. Among other advantages, it will give us lots of opportunities to revisit the sketches of Monty Python :)Back to the serious world. I can see where this is coming from. Truth be told, if I had to restart today with Chamilo 2 ... or actually if I werethe one starting ... then some other decisions might have been made. Sadly enough we've been around for a while now. I started working on Chamilo 2 back in February 2007. If my sources are correct that's aboutthe time symfony 1.0 was released. Zend Framework 1.0 was released a few months later (somewhere in the summer of 2007 if memory serves me well?)Yes, we start working on our current LMS on june 2006 with symfony 0.8. It's sad that at the time we don't know the Chamilo 2.0 project, maybe we were able to merge our 2 projects.So where does that leave us now: with a modest framework (and that's such a "heavy" word) which doesn't offer all the functionality giants like ZF or S offer, but doesn't really need it either IMO.My current perception is that new generation frameworks (SF2/ZF2) doesn't do much, but try to do it well. The problem I see in current Chamilo is that nearly all things that in SF/ZF are in Chamilo but in a less polish and efficient way. So it's not really a question of functionality scope, but rather having something easier to use, with less code, more efficiently. Maybe it seems a huge project to change so dramatically the project only to have something is more easy to develop with, but in the other hand, pushing this logic to its end, we would all use Moodle…I'm not saying we should reinvent the wheel every single time, but at the veryleast we should make sure the wheel fits our Cars (? Pixar / Disney). I welcome ideas like using the Doctrine DBAL for access to DBMS storage engines. But, and I could be wrong about this of course, to me there is big difference between actually using something for a specific piece of functionality and using it as the basis for your entire platform. I can live with (and like) the first, but the second, at this point in time ... well ... A (virtual) Bridge Too Far (even if it features Laurence Olivier and Michael Caine)It's clear that this have a Deep Impact (yes, I can also use movie metaphor :p ) Moving to a SF2/ZF2 would take at least one year and probably more (I would be happy if it would be available for june 2012 release)You could simply use whatever you need from whichever framework as a library, but considering most of them are integrated solutions, that just seems like creating extra - unwanted - overhead.In fact, the way SF2 is built you can use just the Request component without any other components (and so without other overhead) It's really a bunch of components loosely coupled. http://symfony.com/componentsIt will also help a migration as parts of Chamilo can be replaced step-by-step.Do we really want to have both the ZF classes for dealing with HTTP Requests AND the symfony classes for dealing with HTTP Requests included in our project?(in response too: why not have more then one in there)Personnally I would say no: just one. I don't see the interest to have two libs to handle the same thing.I know this all sounds quite negative, but sadly enough I have to work in the real world ... even though I'd much prefer to live in Utopia, where I can keep on breaking (a modest number of) things to move on to better architectures, ideas, concepts and whatnots.I'd say that you're wise and realistic. I want the best for chamilo2 but I also need something that works! It's good to have someone who keep an eye on that as coordinator :)Btw. what is the current status of (stable releases for) symfony 2 and/or ZF 2?Don't know for ZF2 but SF2 is Preview Release 9. I know some people currently use it in prod. But due to deadlines I consider to be realistic (circa June 2012 for a full migration), it's not really a problem. Regards, Goulwen _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list Dev@lists.chamilo.org http://lists.chamilo.org/listinfo/dev
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