BTW, the Calamares fork I did it's based on Manjaro's, which supports OpenRC. Also, the OpenRC ISO shouldn't be difficult to make, IDK how to use Parabolaiso/Archiso, so I limited to just remaster the older ISO (long ago). However, I remember I made a lot of little tweaks when making the MATE Live ISO + OpenRC, so if any doubt I could help :)
El 06/07/17 a las 11:49, Josh Branning escribió: > Hi, > > I'd say that was a good choice; LXDE, probably my first preference, and > I think it's good you are working on an openrc version, which I may be > willing to test. > > But out of personal taste, I am not 100% sure about the installer. Can > the ISO be built without? I would be interested to know. > > That aside, I think this could be a vast improvement over the MATE desktop. > > Many thanks, > > > Josh > > On 06/07/17 16:31, bill-auger wrote: >> as you may know, the current graphical liveCD ISO is over 6 months old >> and more importantly, no longer installs smoothly, but requires some >> manual commands to be run in order to make the keyring sane and then >> to replace and remove certain deprecated or obsoleted packages upon >> the first system update >> >> last month, oaken-source recreated all of the ISOs to fix this issue >> but the MATE installer has some serious regression issues and after >> several attempts we decided to simply put the old one back - this is a >> problem becuase it is the graphical installer that those least >> tech-savvy of users will choose and this was the very reason that made >> an upgraded ISO an urgency >> >> since then i have created a new ISO with parabolaiso based on >> LXDE/openbox and have customized the "user-friendly" graphical >> calamares installer for parabola - i am also investigating if it is >> worthwhile to adapt the 'manjaro-tools' ISO builder to parabola - it >> has several attractive properties over archiso - notably, it includes >> dozens of configurations for different WM/DEs and also it creates >> calamares configurations automatically - it may be a lot of work to >> adapt for parabola but it is interesting and it should be noted that >> the current parabolaiso has not seen it's upstream since 2013, so >> updating that could be a significant amount of work itself >> >> i understand that these user-friendly graphical installers are not >> such a priority in the arch world but, for better or worse, parabola >> has been attracting many non-technical casual desktop users lately and >> such features are extremely important to them - it is exactly the arch >> reputation that intimidates people from trying parabola - with a >> pretty graphical installer and the octopuss program parabola can be >> made to be quite appropriate for the casual desktop use-case as well >> >> this does not only apply to parabola - free software generally is not >> known for it's user-friendliness but non-technical folks are the >> majority of PC users and so in order for FOSS to thrive, the issue of >> user-friendliness deserves much more attention than it currently gets >> - IMHO that is clearly the reason why ubuntu and mint are the most >> popular nixes >> >> manjaro, for example, is more popular than arch because it appeals to >> both experienced and casual users alike (manjaro is actually 3rd place >> on distrowatch now - above ubuntu - for comparisson arch is 14th >> place) - i think that parabola (certainly hyperbola) should aim to be >> not the libre arch equivalent as it is now, but the libre manjaro >> equivalent, something that is not quite so scary for the folks who >> would likely choose trisquel as their first libre distro >> >> in any case, if parabola is to have any graphical ISO at all, the >> existing MATE ISO should really be replaced ASAP - it is not clear how >> exactly parabola goes about the peer review process but if anyone >> would like to test these builds, please do - or perhaps i could just >> upload a pre-made beta ISO somewhere if others just want to evaluate >> and critique the artifact - whichever is the best way to get more eyes >> on it and move the project forward that is fine by me >> >> as it is, the LXDE-systemd ISO has the quite ugly default theme and >> does not have the calamares installer in it yet but that is very close >> to ready though it too could use some beautification - LXDE uses GTK >> themes so the 'parabola' theme from the MATE install can probably be >> used easily - this LXDE-systemd ISO could be released nearly as is, >> but i would want to make that look a bit prettier and more >> importantly, to have more eyes on it besides my own, WHILE it is being >> worked on - clicking everything to make sure it is a useful liveCD and >> installer before considering it production ready - it is unclear to me >> how far the 'adhocracy' approach should extend - but at some point, >> peer review becomes essential and that point is somewhere between the >> prototye and release >> >> feel free to open particular issues on notabug: >> * https://notabug.org/bill-auger/parabolaiso >> * https://notabug.org/bill-auger/calamares >> >> >> to build the LXDE ISO: >> ``` >> git clone https://notabug.org/bill-auger/parabolaiso >> git checkout lxde >> cd parabolaiso/config/lxde-systemd >> ./build.sh -v -T x86_64 -V "`date +%Y.%m.%d.%H.%M`-alpha" >> ``` >> both the -T and -V are optional - the -T value can be either 'x86_64' >> or 'i686' - without the '-T arch' it will build the dual ISO - the '-V >> date' is just to make the output filename different for each >> development build >> >> to build and launch the calamares installer: >> ``` >> git clone https://notabug.org/bill-auger/calamares >> git checkout parabola >> cd calamares >> ./mk >> ``` >> this one still has some rough edges - there is a PKGBUILD also but i >> have not verified that it works correctly yet - the ./mk script is >> what i have been using for development >> >> >> some notes on the design decisions: >> >> the new ISO configs have some immediate advantages over the MATE ISO >> already - for one, octopi does not work on the MATE ISO because the >> auto-login is root - the LXDE ISO logs in a the 'parabola' user with >> password-less sudo so octopi actually works as expected - secondly the >> MATE ISO requires an internet connection to install and downloads the >> entire operating system - this is quite different than any other >> liveCD ive ever seen - typically a liveCD will decompress it's >> squashfs onto the target disk as the base for the installed system so >> that the OS can be installed without a network connection - of course, >> that is not the "arch way" so i understand why that design decision >> was made - but it is not very practical - the user must download this >> 2GB ISO which contains 2 complete operating systems (32-bit and >> 64-bit) when the user will almost certainly only use one - immediately >> this initial download could be cut in half simply by making separate >> 32-bit and 64-bit ISOs - next, upon in > s > talling, the user then downloads again an entire operating system as > packages via pacstrap - clearly, this is ridiculous - for this reason i > have customized the ISO build script to allow making either the > dual-target ISO, or one each for only x86 or x86_64 - also, they carry > all of the packages necessary to install the complete system without any > network connection - this of course make the ISO much larger again but > this allows it to install via pacstrap the "arch way" instead of > exploding the SFS - it can be debated whether or not this "best of both > worlds" approach is justified, but although it is still wasteful, i > consider this to be more reasonable than having two complete operating > systems in one ISO when the user is almost certain to only use one of > them - it is no more difficult to make separate 32-bit and 64-bit ISOs, > takes no more time, and makes each one half the download size >> >> >> notes on progress: >> >> the 'lxde-system' ISO config is working and does what it says on the >> tin - the 'lxde-openrc' ISO config is a work in progress - it will >> build an ISO but it does not yet boot fully - note that the difference >> here applies only to the LiveCD environment - the final installed >> system depends only on the configuration of the calamares installer - >> i left the existing MATE CLI install scripts in place as a fallback if >> for some reason the live xserver fails to launch >> >> the current calamares installs MATE with systemd - i am working now to >> get it to install an openrc system and other WM/DEs - eventually this >> should be able to allow the user to choose amoung various combinations >> of init systems and desktops >> >> this de-coupling of the ISO and installer and not re-using the SFS has >> the added advantage of allowing for any number of liveCDs >> (KDE,gnome,i3) to all reuse the same calamares installer package yet >> that same installer could be used to install any other init system or >> WM/DE configuration - e.g. a KDE-systemd liveCD (or any other) could >> install an LXDE-openrc system (or any other) > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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