Painful ? It's actually quite refreshing after a hard work day. Enjoyable.

Regards,
Stephane


PS : I'd be very interesting to talk about general accessibility/ergonomics
too.


On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Paul Boddie <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wednesday 18. September 2013 15.23.56 David Deutsch wrote:
> >
> > Credibility? Eternalize? What? Look - I'm just a FOSS coder and I don't
> > care how "professional" or whatever I come across. What I do care about
> is
> > an /honest/ track record that can be seen in my github profile, amongst
> > other things. I would like to help out in other projects as well,
> > eventually, and I want to be able to offer an honest, cohesive picture of
> > how past efforts went about. That's why I showed you what I did for
> RedBean
> > - to give you a direct view into how it went down in another example. If
> I
> > propose help to other projects, I don't think they would care much about
> > how "professional" I am, but they would very much appreciate an honest
> > picture of the process.
>
> I'm mostly lurking on this list at the moment, having made an enquiry a few
> months ago about something that I've not been able to prioritise (more
> below),
> but this thread is too painful to read without commenting.
>
> In principle I also am against the excessive rebase culture that a lot of
> Free
> Software projects employ. The joke about this culture is that in its most
> extreme form one wouldn't bother having more than a single commit in a
> repository, and that commit would be accompanied by a message reading
> "Perfection!", "All done!", "Project complete!" or "Nailed it!"
>
> That you also see projects *making* version control software insisting on
> rebasing or collapsing changesets, even though rebasing may be frowned upon
> and collapsing changesets may involve advanced functionality, could be
> considered akin to hypocrisy: people making tools to manage the
> information in
> software development insisting that such information be thrown away.
> (Please
> note that I'm not saying anything about Roundcube's commit or contributions
> policy here.)
>
> However, one should respect that projects do have commit policies for good
> reasons. Some of these policies are infuriatingly strict: the Mercurial
> project, for example, generally wants a single commit for enhancements, bug
> fixes and new features (even though no-one in their right mind would do the
> work in a single commit "for real"), and the commit message must adhere to
> a
> specific format; all of this is on top of other policies one may or may not
> like (line lengths, discouragement of comments, obligatory tests,
> discouragement of new tests, obligatory documentation, and so on). It can
> take
> several iterations to get something that the core developers will accept.
>
> On the one hand, it can seem like people are just making life hard for
> casual
> contributors. I am aware of one project controlled by a large corporation
> who
> apparently makes contributing very much like a "ring of fire" experience
> perhaps even more extreme than what I have described above. When people who
> are paid to work on a project make more work for volunteers, one can
> legitimately question their motives.
>
> On the other hand, it is understandable that core developers do not wish to
> readily take on more work that other people have thrown over the wall,
> giving
> those core developers code to maintain forever while the contributors enjoy
> the benefits of their work in the resulting product, with the contributed
> code
> magically bug-fixed and updated for any and all of the architectural
> changes
> and transformations that might come about.
>
> As others have pointed out, your work will always be available in the form
> in
> which you made it available if you continue to publish your
> repositories/branches. Those who you wish to convince about the substance
> of
> your work will still be able to see it and appreciate your efforts. But you
> should also appreciate that those who have to maintain your contributions
> should also get to choose how they can work with those contributions.
> Denying
> those people any choice sends a signal that may be interpreted negatively
> by
> others, regardless of whether words like "professional" are in their
> vocabulary.
>
> I think it is great to see your enthusiasm to improve Roundcube, and being
> much more of a Python developer than someone who uses PHP, your work
> appears
> to be beneficial to people like me. Please don't squander this opportunity
> to
> see good work done by attaching a price to your contributions that may end
> up
> with only you bearing the cost.
>
> Paul
>
> P.S. My original business on this list was to inquire about accessibility
> support in Roundcube. If anyone has any thoughts on the topic (whether
> Roundcube is perceived to be sufficient/deficient, whether work could be
> done), I'd be happy to revive that thread.
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>
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