JNA does the same kind of magic to extract DLLs IIRC but that is for the
lib path, not the classpath.

Gary

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Remko Popma <[email protected]> wrote:

> On second thought, without a custom class loader we’d first need to copy
> these classes into the classpath.
>
> This may not always be possible and sounds like a bad idea anyway.
>
> So please ignore my previous email.
>
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 8:38 Remko Popma <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > > On Dec 3, 2017, at 1:38, Ralph Goers <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I see several issues:
> > >
> > > StackLocator:
> > >    This cannot be removed from the API is the API as
> > LogManager.getLogger() calls it. Converting the Java 9 version to use
> > Reflection would add enough overhead that it probably wouldn’t be worth
> it
> > to use it. Also, you would have to figure out how to code the lambda
> > expressions without using Lambdas. Adding a log4j-java9 jar for api
> and/or
> > core would probably make us as unpopular with folks migrating to Java 9
> as
> > the current situation is for Android users, but it may be the only viable
> > solution. Figuring out how to have the class files be ignored by Android
> > seems reasonable but nothing immediately comes to mind as to how to do
> it.
> > >
> > > I made a log4j-android branch a while back that operates pretty much as
> > Remko describes below. It does not include the Java 9 support and
> includes
> > a binding to the android logger. However, I got an immediate complaint
> from
> > an Android user that they were not happy with that as they wanted access
> to
> > core. It is also a problem to have lots of pom files refer to log4j-api
> and
> > to have to exclude that and replace it with log4j-android instead.
> > >
> > > I do not want to drop support for Java 9 but we do need to find a
> > creative solution for StackLocator. The limitations I am aware of with
> this
> > are that having multi-release jars and/or Java 9 classes in the jar cause
> > problems with tools. Also, having Java 9 source directly in log4j-api or
> > log4j-core does not play nice with IDEs.
> > >
> > > The only thing that comes to mind with regarding having classes with a
> > different file extension would be to have a custom class loader that
> wraps
> > whatever the class loader is. Going down that road seems like it could be
> > full of problems.
> >
> > We may not need a custom class loader. Idea:
> >
> > The Java 9 classes would be in the log4j-api jar, just with a different
> > extension (so the legacy tooling won’t choke on the version 53 bytecode).
> >
> > We can extract those classes into a temp directly, rename them back to
> the
> > canonical extension, and use the same class loader that loaded the other
> > log4j-api classes to load the Java 9 classes from the temp directory.
> >
> > If this fails, we fall back to the Java 7-compatible implementation.
> >
> > >
> > > Ralph
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:34 AM, Remko Popma <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Ok, you have some fair points there.
> > >>
> > >> Main take-away for me is that if we want Log4j2's API to become
> > ubiquitous
> > >> it needs to be at least painless for everyone.
> > >> Don't known about the "too much stuff" in log4j-api - bit vague and
> not
> > >> actionable.
> > >>
> > >> What can we do, concretely?
> > >>
> > >> log4j-api
> > >> ---------
> > >> 1) I've already replaced the explicit references to JMX classes in
> > >> log4j-api with reflection for Android compatibility. (LOG4J2-2126
> > >> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-2126> was a regression,
> > fixed
> > >> now)
> > >> 2) The tricky bit is StackLocator. Options I can think of:
> > >>  a) reflection;
> > >>  b) separate log4j-api-java9 jar;
> > >>  c) rename java 9 class files to other extension than .class and load
> at
> > >> runtime when running in Java 9
> > >>  d) other?
> > >> 3) The PID stuff can be moved to core (would still need some solution
> > like
> > >> for above (2) to allow use in Android).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> log4j-core
> > >> ----------
> > >> We don't really have a good Android story for core.
> > >>
> > >> One option we can offer is log4j-api-android, which is a drop-in
> > >> replacement for log4j-core that logs to Android's adb, similar to what
> > >> "android.util.Log.d" does. However, we've had feedback from users who
> > want
> > >> to use normal log4j-core file logging facilities on Android
> (LOG4J2-1921
> > >> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-1921>).
> > >>
> > >> Maybe we can do the same for log4j-core as for log4j-api: use
> > reflection or
> > >> even separate jars :-( to make log4j-core work in Android.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:09 PM, Mikael Ståldal <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I fully understand Oleg's point of view.
> > >>>
> > >>> If we aim for Log4j 2's API to be the standard logging API/facade for
> > >>> Java/JVM (eventually replacing SLF4J), then we have painted ourselves
> > into
> > >>> a corner by allowing log4j-api to grow out of bounds, and not paying
> > enough
> > >>> attention to the compatibility problems with Android (and possibly
> > fringe
> > >>> platforms) it causes.
> > >>>
> > >>> It is quite pointless to blame this on Android and its tooling. We
> can,
> > >>> and should raise issues we find on Android tooling, and hope for them
> > to
> > >>> eventually get fixed. But that can take time, and at the end of the
> day
> > >>> Android is what it is, and that's what users are going to use. If
> > log4j-api
> > >>> does not work on Android, most users will blame Log4j and not
> Android.
> > >>>
> > >>> And if a library with use cases both on standard Java and on Android,
> > like
> > >>> Apache HttpClient, have a required dependency on log4j-api and that
> > causes
> > >>> it to fail on Android, most users will blame HttpClient and not
> Android
> > >>> (nor Log4j since they may be unaware of it).
> > >>>
> > >>> If I were maintainer of Apache HttpClient, I would also be very
> > hesitant
> > >>> to make it depend on log4j-api at this point. I don't think it is
> > >>> constructive to just try to convince them given the current state of
> > Log4j
> > >>> and the Android tooling, we need to do some work on our end first (or
> > >>> possibly volunteer to spend some effort on fixing the Android
> tooling).
> > >>>
> > >>> I think that the root cause is not Java 9 support, it is that we have
> > >>> allowed too much stuff to go into log4j-api (instead of log4j-core),
> > and
> > >>> that started long before the Java 9 work. JMX is also incompatible
> with
> > >>> Android, regardless of Java 9.
> > >>>
> > >>> With a thinner log4j-api, we could have added Java 9 support to
> > log4j-core
> > >>> only, and avoided this problem.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 2017-12-01 15:53, Gary Gregory wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I had migrated HttpClient 5 to Log4j 2 but now there is push back
> due
> > to
> > >>>> the mess Java 9 has made of the META-INF folder and our adding
> > support for
> > >>>> Java 9 modules perhaps too soon.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Please see http://markmail.org/message/yyoj4zs3ieyaept5 and comment
> > on
> > >>>> that
> > >>>> thread please.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

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