bq: my proposal would be to get rid of that PMC group (which is like
more admins), clear the admin group, and seed it with anyone that
calls out wanting access

+1

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Mark Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> bq. Personally I'm fine with not being an administrator as long as I can
> assign JIRAs to myself and resolve them.
>
> I think that is 80-90% of us. The only time I ever use admin is to fix
> version stuff like this or do a release. I think Jenkins access might work
> this way, you have to request it. It would also be great if like the
> committer role could manage versions, but I couldn't seem to find that
> feature.
>
> But anyway, my proposal would be to get rid of that PMC group (which is like
> more admins), clear the admin group, and seed it with anyone that calls out
> wanting access, and then give access as requested from there out, extra
> points for a warning about this 'feature' and managing versions consistently
> with the past unless there is discussion.
>
> - Mark
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 1:06 PM Erick Erickson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with all your points and would _much_ rather be unable to
>> screw up even if it meant jumping through another hoop on those rare
>> occasions when I needed more authority.
>>
>> Personally I'm fine with not being an administrator as long as I can
>> assign JIRAs to myself and resolve them.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Mark Miller <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> > The problem is not so much notifying people, because no one is closely
>> > monitoring this stuff. By the time we ever notice it and attempt to fix
>> > it,
>> > there are 40-200 issues involved. You are not the only one. And I would
>> > be
>> > angry at you! If not for the fact that it's a terrible JIRA issue that
>> > did
>> > not used to be a problem. But, ok, you have learned this JIRA 'feature'
>> > is a
>> > problem. What about those not reading this, what about future
>> > committers,
>> > what about you go away for a year and come back having forgotten. The
>> > JIRA
>> > issue to fix this in JIRA has tons of votes, but it's also old, so no
>> > help
>> > from Atlassian likely any time soon. You can read the comments on the
>> > bug
>> > report and lots of people have this problem and hate it. The devs doing
>> > it
>> > here are not special, that's obvious.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure why we have so many admins though. Sure, if you do a
>> > release,
>> > you want to be able to manage the versions, but a huge number of
>> > committers
>> > have not done a release and could request admin when needed. Then we
>> > could
>> > grant it, and be like, by the way, careful with your god like powers to
>> > create stuff out of thin air without realizing.
>> >
>> > Perhaps the other reason most might use admin power is to add someone,
>> > but I
>> > think only a subset of people do that as well currently.
>> >
>> > - Mark
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 12:28 PM Erick Erickson
>> > <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hmmm, and come to think of it I'm pretty sure I resolved some "fix
>> >> versions" as "trunk", which is also incorrect.
>> >>
>> >> Well, now I know.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Erick Erickson
>> >> <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > If you look at the "history" tab on the JIRA you can see who set what
>> >> > values when. I checked 4-5 of the JIRAS and the person who set those
>> >> > has a long record of being very conscientious about changes so I'm
>> >> > certain it's just an awareness issue, at least for that person. I'll
>> >> > ping....
>> >> >
>> >> > Which suggests a way to raise awareness going forward: check the
>> >> > history and send a message.
>> >> >
>> >> > If that doesn't cure it we can consider harsher measures, although I
>> >> > don't think forbidding arbitrary labels is "harsh", it's just too bad
>> >> > we can't.
>> >> >
>> >> > Erick
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 7:56 AM, Mark Miller <[email protected]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> I wish hossman was still more active in this type of thing. He would
>> >> >> have
>> >> >> sworn more and fixed it more meticulously and probably earlier. Or
>> >> >> maybe he
>> >> >> is sick of it after last time. Anyway, I did what I could, preserved
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> proper versions I could, and it's clean again for now.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm halfway serious about the admin thing given you can easily auto
>> >> >> create
>> >> >> components and versions by accident. Maybe instead of giving it to
>> >> >> everyone
>> >> >> by default, we should be doing it by request.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - Mark
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:29 AM Mark Miller <[email protected]>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Perhaps everyone doesn't need to be a JIRA admin? Like people that
>> >> >>> add
>> >> >>> new
>> >> >>> bad versions in the future ;) This is no fun to cleanup.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> - Mark
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:23 AM Mark Miller
>> >> >>> <[email protected]>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Bummer, seems we can't lock this down :(
>> >> >>>> https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRASERVER-42068
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:42 AM Mark Miller
>> >> >>>> <[email protected]>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:37 AM Cassandra Targett
>> >> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> I noticed these the other day also, and had an email half-wrote
>> >> >>>>>> that I
>> >> >>>>>> intended to finish up today.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> To start, JIRA unfortunately makes this really easy to make a
>> >> >>>>>> mess
>> >> >>>>>> of
>> >> >>>>>> - if you can create or edit an issue, you can just pop in a new
>> >> >>>>>> value
>> >> >>>>>> that gets added to the list of open versions. Editing an issue
>> >> >>>>>> is
>> >> >>>>>> open
>> >> >>>>>> to lots of folks - committers, contributors, the reporter of an
>> >> >>>>>> issue.
>> >> >>>>>> So, we have high potential for this to be an ongoing problem.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Ah, that makes this a lot less baffling I guess.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> But, since only committers can commit patches and are thus the
>> >> >>>>>> usual
>> >> >>>>>> resolvers of an issue, committers either aren't paying enough
>> >> >>>>>> attention to that field when they resolve an issue or there is
>> >> >>>>>> confusion/difference of understanding about what that field is
>> >> >>>>>> supposed to mean.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> There are currently 49 issues for Solr that have these
>> >> >>>>>> "non-standard"
>> >> >>>>>> versions [1]. Some date back before the most recent 6.5.0
>> >> >>>>>> release,
>> >> >>>>>> which means there are issues fixed in 6.4 and 6.5 (at least)
>> >> >>>>>> which
>> >> >>>>>> don't say so in JIRA.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> This could be really problematic going forward. We need to agree
>> >> >>>>>> that
>> >> >>>>>> when issues are resolved, the fixVersion field is reliable and
>> >> >>>>>> means
>> >> >>>>>> the same thing to everyone.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> +1!
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> IMO we should always use the *next* version that makes sense at
>> >> >>>>>> that
>> >> >>>>>> time. So, an issue resolved today would be "6.6" and "master
>> >> >>>>>> (7.0)".
>> >> >>>>>> Others may have different points of view on how we should do
>> >> >>>>>> this,
>> >> >>>>>> but
>> >> >>>>>> I think traditionally it's been the way I suggest, so if there
>> >> >>>>>> is
>> >> >>>>>> change desired there, we should discuss it.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I agree.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Side note: I know there is some doubt today that 6.6 will ever
>> >> >>>>>> exist.
>> >> >>>>>> However, it will be a lot easier to go through JIRA to remove
>> >> >>>>>> "6.6"
>> >> >>>>>> from issues that aren't in 6.x than it will be to review
>> >> >>>>>> issue-by-issue everything that says "6x" or "6.x" or
>> >> >>>>>> "branch_6x",
>> >> >>>>>> etc., and figure out when it was actually released.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> +1. It also matches how we handle CHANGES afaict.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I wish we could disable the auto creating of versions entirely
>> >> >>>>> somehow,
>> >> >>>>> but I guess the next best thing is to raise awareness. It's great
>> >> >>>>> to
>> >> >>>>> have
>> >> >>>>> the correct versions and in the correct ordering.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> - Mark
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Cassandra
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> [1] Query for JIRA issues:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20SOLR%20AND%20status%20in%20(Resolved%2C%20Closed)%20AND%20fixVersion%20in%20(6.x%2C%206x%2C%20branch_6x)
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 1:33 AM, Mark Miller
>> >> >>>>>> <[email protected]>
>> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> > Who keeps adding strange JIRA release versions? I've cleaned
>> >> >>>>>> > up
>> >> >>>>>> > strange ones
>> >> >>>>>> > in the past and they keep coming back.
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > Why do we have branch6x, 6x and 6.x and trunk?
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > Even if we wanted more than 6.1, 6.2, 6.2.1 and master (7.0),
>> >> >>>>>> > and
>> >> >>>>>> > I
>> >> >>>>>> > don't
>> >> >>>>>> > think we do, who keeps adding these duplicates? Let's come to
>> >> >>>>>> > some
>> >> >>>>>> > sanity
>> >> >>>>>> > here.
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > - Mark
>> >> >>>>>> > --
>> >> >>>>>> > - Mark
>> >> >>>>>> > about.me/markrmiller
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> >> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>> - Mark
>> >> >>>>> about.me/markrmiller
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> --
>> >> >>>> - Mark
>> >> >>>> about.me/markrmiller
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> - Mark
>> >> >>> about.me/markrmiller
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> - Mark
>> >> >> about.me/markrmiller
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> >>
>> > --
>> > - Mark
>> > about.me/markrmiller
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
> --
> - Mark
> about.me/markrmiller

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