On Mon, 2006-02-06 at 11:29 -0500, Chad Smith wrote: > > As for Ian's claim about the schools -
Not a claim, I used to Inspect schools for a living. Its like telling a developer they "claim" using Go Tos in a programme is bad practice. > Do these schools remove all games > from their computers? There is some variation but most of them will or at least have some sort of selective access authorised by an administrator. School networks are mostly more sophisticated security wise than you will find in most business environments. They have to be or they will get hacked to bits. > Do their Windows machines come without Solitaire and > Free Cell and Hearts? Mostly thes will be removed from the applications available. Just checked with Chris to be sure since he does network installs in schools - yes when we install a school network the demand is normally only to allow certain apps to run. Group policies etc are why school network set ups are not a trivial undertaking. > Do their Macs come without Marble Blast and > Nanosaur? Vey few people use Macs in UK schools compared to PCs and we don't support them so I don't know but probably if the network policy is only relevant apps, these will be removed. > Do their Linux machines come without Potatoe Head Man, Tux Racer, > and YASC? Do they come without the Internet? In general the same applies. Yes they have Internet access but it can be swithed on and off for individuals by the teacher. That was the same in Germany and Spain in the schools I visited recently. > Do they come without IM > clients? Again that would be a conscious decision to have it enabled or disabled. > Do they come without the billion or so other distractions that > computers have built in? What about Draw? Don't you think being able to > make pictures on a computer screen is distracting? I mean, look at how much > fun Tux Paint is. Draw can be fun like that with enough imagination. > Should we remove that too? I'm just telling you what clients ask for. I'm in the market, you aren't so why do you seem to assume I'm just making this up? I thought the whole point was to draw on people's expertise. If my expertise counts for nothing, there isn't too much point in making any suggestions is there? > You may claim that "an office sutie shouldn't add to the problem." And I > can see your point there - but I seriously doubt that removing these 2 games > would improve the educational status of any student or school system. Whether EEs are educationally sound or not isn't the issue. Its what teachers and school network admins think that matters, that is the difference between marketing and just doing what you find fun. You sell to customers on their terms not on your personal value systems. > And Scott, I do, again, disagree with you, Easter Eggs are fun. In fact, > that's the basis of Ian's arguement *against* easter eggs. That they are so > much fun they'll distract students from learning. Missing the point again. Not so much fun in themselves - their PS2s and Xboxes are a lot more sophisticated - but fun for some in that they can disrupt a lesson. Super teachers probably don't have to worry about it but most ordinary humans have a difficult enough time with kids in to-day's society without making life more difficult for them. Understand your market and you have some chance of pressing the right buttons for acceptance. Note that IBM have never been successful in the UK schools market despite trying. Mainly they don't understand the culture. That is also my conclusion so far in my dealings with Sun too. > Even if you did remove the internet, gave students no rights to install > anything, removed all games and game-like programs from the hard drive, and > removed all easter eggs - kids would still not pay attention if they didn't > want to. > The point is - kids will invent distractions. I'll take your comments seriously Chad when you have a Masters in Education, 25 years experience teaching and inspecting schools and a further 12 years experience selling to them from the private sector. The snag is everyone went to school so everyone is an expert in education. It makes about as much sense as everyone who bought something from Walmart is an expert in sales and marketing ;-) -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
