Sorry for top posting. At least 72 hours is needed because we are all volunteers and it takes time to validate a release.
Also I see that in a few projects (maybe not Maven) the VOTE starts during the weekend and this is a problem because sometimes in the weekend you are not at the keyboard and we miss the opportunity to have VOTEs from people that could cast their vote during regular work days Just my two cents Enrico Il Sab 19 Nov 2022, 10:12 Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibu...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > Le ven. 18 nov. 2022 à 21:40, Tamás Cservenák <ta...@cservenak.net> a > écrit : > > > So Maven cares for us, hence the 72h? I don't get how one is deduced from > > another. > > > > And as they are (and usually are) dependent on each other from > perspective > > of single release mgr local repo we could release all 150+, at the cost > of > > breaking all the 150+ CI jobs and all source builds in the wild for at > > least 72+2h (actually more, as _during_ release preparation they would > > start breaking, not only during vote). So, thank you, but no, thank you > :D > > > > Strange, that you say "no user complained of waiting". From where did you > > source this information, or from where can you support this claim? > > > > Just as an example, complaints on Slack do happen, quite often and > > regularly. > > > > Not of the 72h, just of the months they need to wait, please dont mix it. > Also which % compared to the user base? > > Also note that all your computations sounds false since the release can be > ran by multiple clients at once in the same staging, dont play the extreme > game, in practise a single repo works for 5-6 projects - way bigger than 10 > maven projects ;) - in a very controlled time. If you need 30 maven > projects it will work without any issue....but once again it is likely not > an issue maven hits, the process being heavy - didnt say only for bads - is > way more hurting and slowing us down (even make features abandonned) than 3 > days. > > > > > T > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 9:19 PM Romain Manni-Bucau < > rmannibu...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Side note: asf is about people not code so maven must care about people > > and > > > this is why 72h came from. > > > > > > For me dependencies is not a reason to make release < 72h since you can > > > release 10 projects in a single staging - anyone failling rolls back > them > > > all but that is the intent anyway right? > > > It means releasing 150+ projects can be done in....72h ;). > > > > > > It is done with success at apache by multiple projects and respects the > > > core of our foundation, human beings. > > > > > > Now no user complained of waiting for 72h and if we are good enough in > > > votes it is the needed time so think the issue you want to tackle is > > > elsewhere, really. > > > > > > Le ven. 18 nov. 2022 à 20:55, Tamás Cservenák <ta...@cservenak.net> a > > > écrit : > > > > > > > As I wrote, we did have examples of changes + cascading, it is okay. > > > > > > > > But I don't agree with your statement about the board, as they > > themselves > > > > state "should" not "must" for 72h. If it does not cut with them, they > > > > should modify the refd page(s). > > > > > > > > And it's not "we're impatient" either, part of the response for that > is > > > in > > > > "hasty changes" canned response. > > > > > > > > Simply put: > > > > - people see releases as a chore, as some "burden" that needs to be > > done > > > > once in a while (see refd Slack messages in 1st mail), and when it > > comes > > > to > > > > be done, "let's do it when it's worth". We have MANY user questions > on > > ML > > > > of type "when is X released? As the issue [the user is interested in] > > is > > > > fixed". And we have too many "dropped balls" in our court. IMHO, > > > modifying > > > > the process (to take less than 72+2h) is one step toward making > release > > > > less painful, less blocker. > > > > > > > > Fun fact: maven project consists of (not sure of exact count, just > > > > guessing) 150+ repositories (GH on ASF org gives 153 when I type in > > > > "maven-" in the repo search bar). This is a LOT. If we'd, for some > > > reason, > > > > start releasing all of those in 72h windows, it would be 10800 hours, > > or > > > > 450 days, more than a year. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 8:34 PM David Jencks < > david.a.jen...@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Which developers have to pause what activities? > > > > > > > > > > From previous discussions elsewhere, I’m strongly of the opinion > > that < > > > > 72 > > > > > hr release votes are intended only for emergency security fixes and > > > > similar > > > > > events, and that “we’re impatient” isn’t going to cut it with the > > > board. > > > > > It certainly wouldn’t with me. > > > > > > > > > > How many of these annoyances would be eliminated by an easy way to > > > > release > > > > > and vote on a set of changed artifacts + the cascading dependencies > > all > > > > at > > > > > once? > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > David Jencks > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 18, 2022, at 11:17 AM, Tamás Cservenák < > ta...@cservenak.net > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > David, > > > > > > > > > > > > I just meant that there is a "forced pause" of 72h. > > > > > > > > > > > > T > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 7:50 PM David Jencks < > > > david.a.jen...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> +1 from the sidelines. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I don’t understand > > > > > >>>>> * current process causes (forced) context switching, and can > > > likely > > > > > >> lead to > > > > > >> human mistakes: when the release vote is announced, developer is > > > > FORCED > > > > > to > > > > > >> stop for 72h and possibly switch. This is just a productivity > > > killer. > > > > > >> <<< > > > > > >> Who is forced to do anything and for what reason? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
