Hi

My 2cts would be

1. this is the whole goal of the consumer pom work did in maven 3 so the
correct phrasing is "we must come with a new namespace", what is also true
is "we must support maven 4.0.0 model version and older namespace" => we
are good
2. goal was to cover at least jar packaging/lifecycle plugins, if we do we
can drop experimental and enhance it in later releases but there was a
chicken egg thing there doing RC so can be worth a pass to validate it
since not everything is 100% done but think we prove we can start with it
and we know how to enrich it => we are good if we do accept that (and to be
honest if we don't nobody will start writing maven 4 plugins except us so
will not help)
3.100% a person related design, what can look good and trivial for somebody
can look overcomplicated for someone else. Maven 3 design can look totally
broken (and it can be a justifiable view) as well as over complex (plexus,
resolver, surefire, lifecycle/packaging, ...). Question is not "is it
complex" but is it justifiable IMHO and is it clear (if we add a new one
can we be consistent). Think we are good but can be worth a doc about the
design for future reference.

Hope it makes sense.

Romain Manni-Bucau
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Le sam. 14 févr. 2026 à 10:25, Maarten Mulders <[email protected]> a
écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> A few days ago, Matthias started a thread [1] to identify what needs to
> be done before we could release Maven 4.0.0. He explicitly asked not to
> reopen previous discussions in that thread - that's why I'm opening a
> new one.
>
> In that thread was a reply from Elliotte where he raised his concerns on
> a couple of issues in the current codebase. I will try to summarise:
>
> 1. Maven 4.0.0 should not come with an XML namespace change.
> 2. We cannot introduce "experimental" API's; similarly, we can't
> "deprecate" API's without proper documentation about their replacement.
> 3. Unnecessary complication in basic functionality.
>
> Elliotte, please feel free to elaborate and/or refer back to earlier
> mailing list threads where those things have been raised.
>
> The thing I would like to discuss in this thread: **do we feel
> comfortable releasing Maven 4.0.0 in this state?**
>
> My personal opinion on the above three points:
>
> 1. I do not have enough knowledge to judge on this. When in doubt, do
> not proceed - I would like to hear the experts voices on this before
> deciding to cut a release.
>
> 2. I very much agree here. If we can't even say that usage of the
> (deprecated) method-X now needs to call the (new) method-Y, then who
> can? We owe it to people building on top of Maven to provide them with
> guidance. Also, releasing "experimental" API's is not a sign of "yes,
> this is an improvement of what we had and you should all use this". It's
> been around for well over a year in various beta and RC releases, I
> think we need to decide if we keep them or remove them.
>
> 3. This personally worries me the least, *as long as those interfaces
> are not part of our public API/SPI*. If they are only internal, we could
> safely remove them and simplify in 4.0.x or 4.x.y. If those interfaces
> are for public consumption, then we might want to reconsider if they
> could become non-public.
>
>
> Curious to hear your thoughts on this. As much as I would love to see
> Maven 4 go public, I *don't* want to ship software we know is in a
> broken state.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Maarten
>
>
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/d07wpod69spl6trt1cy5ykzs2971414j
>
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