> > Yes I think it's important to mention, in response to Javi's point, > that one doesn't need to be an hard-core C++ dev to contribute.
Exactly! To be honest I did not have much C++ programming experience when I started to contribute to Mesos. But when I read Mesos code, I felt it's easy to understand and has very good design. Although Mesos is running in multi-thread mode, you actually do not need to take care of the locking/race condition in most cases (thanks to the actor mode with libprocess). So I'd encourage everyone to read Mesos code and let us know which area you'd like to contribute to :) Regards, Qian Zhang On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 3:08 AM Charles-François Natali <cf.nat...@gmail.com> wrote: > Le dim. 30 mai 2021 à 16:09, Qian Zhang <zhq527...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > [...] So given the > > active committers and contributors that we have in the community, I do > not > > think we can do anything big in the short term, instead we should do > small > > things to gradually activate the community. Here are what in my mind: > > 1. Review and merge the outstanding PRs. > > 2. Review the tickets in JIRA and select some high priority ones to work > on. > > 3. Add at least one new committer. > > Yes I think it's important to mention, in response to Javi's point, > that one doesn't need to be an hard-core C++ dev to contribute. > The code base is actually very clean and easy to read, the main > problem is the use of libprocess/actor model which takes some getting > used to, especially for people who're more used to a reactor, green > thread, etc models. The libprocess doc [1] gives a good overview. The > stout doc [2] is also worth a read although nothing surprising about > its design. > > But in any case I think there's a lot of valuable work which doesn't > require any C++, for example as Qian mentions going through the huge > backlog of JIRA issues. > I know it doesn't sound like the most exciting thing but it would > actually help a lot to do some triage, try to reproduce bugs, close > stale tickets, respond to user questions etc. > > I remember seeing a few other people answering Qian's call for > contributors a couple months ago [3], it'd be great if they could > reach out if they're still interested - if not it's fine, I know we're > all busy with our lives :). > > Cheers, > > Charles > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/mesos/tree/master/3rdparty/libprocess > [2] https://github.com/apache/mesos/tree/master/3rdparty/stout > [3] > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mesos-dev/202103.mbox/%3CCABY6VOb%3DT8VxehVaS1YBrC5_odEwKhZzj3R4o3b-ykCytDw3JA%40mail.gmail.com%3E > > > > > > Please let me know for any comments / suggestions, thanks! > > > > > > Regards, > > Qian Zhang > > > > > > On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 7:59 PM Zahoor <zah...@zahoor.in> wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > > > Better to rewrite/redesign Mesos with a more popular language (like > > > golang) to attract more developers. > > > Just a mind voice. > > > > > > ../Zahoor > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 4:08 PM Javi Roman <jroman.espi...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Totally agree that the main problem with this project is trying to > > >> increase the developer community. > > >> > > >> From my point of view, attracting new developers to a project of this > > >> complexity is difficult (C++ low level developers, creating Java and > Python > > >> bindings is not easy). However, if we try to broaden the objectives > of the > > >> project we may be able to attract other developers (not only C++ > > >> developers) who can help. > > >> > > >> One idea I have always had is to incorporate the concept and > technology > > >> of D2IQ DC/OS [1], in this way we would continue the abandoned work > of D2IQ > > >> by extending Apache Mesos to a more user-friendly technology and > broaden > > >> the base of developers with interest in (ReactJS, Go, Scala, > databases). > > >> > > >> I would be interested in contributing in this line, being able to > apply > > >> my knowledge in other areas, beyond C++ (which unfortunately I am not > > >> proficient in). > > >> > > >> [1] https://github.com/dcos > > >> -- > > >> Javi Roman > > >> > > >> Twitter: @javiromanrh > > >> GitHub: github.com/javiroman > > >> Linkedin: es.linkedin.com/in/javiroman > > >> Big Data Blog: dataintensive.info > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 12:47 PM Charles-François Natali < > > >> cf.nat...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hi Renan, > > >>> > > >>> > Renaming the topic because apparently we need to have this > discussion > > >>> again. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks for bringing this up again, because it is indeed still a > problem. > > >>> > > >>> > Therefore, the PMC *must* add members or the project *will* > fizzle out > > >>> > and die. > > >>> > > > >>> > I'd also be curious to see if we even have enough PMC members to > form a > > >>> > quorum at the moment as I only see Andrei Sekretenko reviewing pull > > >>> > requests on Github and the new chair Qian Zhang on emails. The > project > > >>> > needs three PMC members for the project to be considered in a good > > >>> state > > >>> > according to the Apache guidelines [0]. > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> I must say I'm also a bit confused. > > >>> The new project chair was elected exactly a month ago [1]. > > >>> Since then, the only thing I have seen - there might be more going on > > >>> being the scenes - is a single thread calling for input on new > > >>> technical direction [2], which as several people mentioned before is > > >>> not the most important issue the project is facing right now. > > >>> As far as I can tell, nothing as been done by the PMC/project chair > to > > >>> address the more fundamental issue of the health of the community. > > >>> Now, Andrei has been doing a great job at reviewing MRs, but as > > >>> mentioned before he only has so much time available, and the project > > >>> can't have only one active committer. > > >>> So it would be good to hear from the project chair what they are > > >>> planning to do, if anything, to address this situation. > > >>> From some private conversations I know that they have been busy with > > >>> other obligations in the past month so maybe it's only a bad timing > > >>> and just a transient state, however I don't think it's viable to > > >>> continue if even the project chair doesn't have any time to dedicate > > >>> to the project - not even replying to this thread. > > >>> > > >>> > At this point I suggest the PMC does a roll call and get Apche > board > > >>> > members involved so that they can be aware of the situation. > > >>> > > >>> I'm not familiar with the ASF but yes it does sounds like a possible > > >>> course of action? > > >>> > > >>> Cheers, > > >>> > > >>> Charles > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> [1] > > >>> > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mesos-dev/202104.mbox/%3CCAE0xwObaHPiSFM3KrY1SL--E864L48o_LF2E7PP2%3DUu3rk99gQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E > > >>> [2] > > >>> > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mesos-dev/202105.mbox/%3CCABY6VOaOxSp%2BeMJm_jSTdY%3DD5Qp%3DT%2B89Cvaxqw7GLbFYr1qzew%40mail.gmail.com%3E > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > >>> > -Renan > > >>> > > > >>> > [0]https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html > > >>> > > > >>> > On 5/24/21 10:21 AM, Charles-François Natali wrote: > > >>> > > Hey, > > >>> > > > > >>> > > Le lun. 24 mai 2021 à 14:12, Qian Zhang <zhq527...@gmail.com> a > > >>> écrit : > > >>> > >>> several fixing bugs which basically make Mesos unusable on a > > >>> recent Linux > > >>> > >> distro > > >>> > >> Can you please elaborate a bit on this? Do you mean Mesos not > > >>> working on a > > >>> > >> recent Linux distro? If so, I think we can start to fix the > issues > > >>> and > > >>> > >> maybe do a patch release for that. > > >>> > > Yes, there are several issues on recent Linux distributions, e.g. > > >>> > > Debian Bullseye: > > >>> > > - https://github.com/apache/mesos/pull/387: compilaiton error, > > >>> > > although it's only in master not in the last release > > >>> > > - https://github.com/apache/mesos/pull/388: problem with the > freezer > > >>> > > cgroup based task killer which causes over a dozen test to fail > and > > >>> > > can leave the freezer frozen, tasks in uninterruptible state etc > > >>> > > - https://github.com/apache/mesos/pull/384: problem parsing > > >>> > > ld.so.cache which also breaks a lot of things > > >>> > > > > >>> > > You were tagged in some of this MRs, I tagged you in all of them, > > >>> it'd > > >>> > > be great if you could have a look :). > > >>> > > > > >>> > > Cheers, > > >>> > > > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> Regards, > > >>> > >> Qian Zhang > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:57 AM Charles-François Natali < > > >>> cf.nat...@gmail.com> > > >>> > >> wrote: > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >>> Hey, > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> Sorry for being a killjoy and repeating myself, but as > mentioned in > > >>> > >>> the past, I don't think that technical direction is the most > > >>> important > > >>> > >>> problem right now - community is. > > >>> > >>> Coming up with medium/long-term technical roadmap doesn't do > much > > >>> if > > >>> > >>> there are no contributors to implement them, and users to use > them. > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> The following issues which have been brought up are still not > > >>> resolved: > > >>> > >>> - very few committers willing to review and merge MRs - > currently > > >>> only > > >>> > >>> Andrei Sekretenko is doing that, and I'm sure he's busy with > his > > >>> day > > >>> > >>> job so only has that much bandwidth > > >>> > >>> - very few people contribute MRs and triage/address JIRA > issues - > > >>> > >>> AFAICT it's pretty much Andreas and me > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> So I think the first thing to do would be to address those > > >>> problems. > > >>> > >>> Some suggestions which come to mind: > > >>> > >>> - to the remaining committers who'd still like to salvage the > > >>> project, > > >>> > >>> please take some time to review and merge MRs - > > >>> > >>> https://github.com/apache/mesos/pulls has a few open, several > > >>> fixing > > >>> > >>> bugs which basically make Mesos unusable on a recent Linux > distro > > >>> > >>> - to the various users who've said they were interested in > keeping > > >>> the > > >>> > >>> project alive: start contributing. It doesn't have to be > anything > > >>> big, > > >>> > >>> just get familiar with the code base: > > >>> > >>> * start going through JIRA and triage bugs, closing > > >>> invalid/stale > > >>> > >>> ones, tackling small issues > > >>> > >>> * submit MRs so that the test suite passes on your OS > > >>> > >>> * submit MRs to merge various commits you have in your > private > > >>> repos > > >>> > >>> if applicable > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> Then in a few months, once the project is back to having a > small > > >>> > >>> active contributors base, they can together decide how to take > the > > >>> > >>> project forward, and start addressing larger projects. > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> Cheers, > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> Charles > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> Le jeu. 20 mai 2021 à 18:16, Gregoire Seux <g.s...@criteo.com> > a > > >>> écrit : > > >>> > >>>> Hi, > > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> Interesting set of suggestions! Here are a few comments: > > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> * Mesos feels simple to deploy (only very few components: > > >>> zookeeper, > > >>> > >>> masters and agents), customization is done mostly through > > >>> configuration > > >>> > >>> files. I don't think there is a strong need to make it easier > > >>> (even though > > >>> > >>> I've used Mesos for years, so I'm pretty used to the > difficulty if > > >>> any) > > >>> > >>>> * Having to manage Zookeeper adds some complexity but > since > > >>> > >>> Zookeeper piece is required to operate Marathon (which is our > main > > >>> > >>> framework), I don't see much value in the investment required > to > > >>> get rid of > > >>> > >>> this dependency. > > >>> > >>>> * Taking advantage of NUMA topology by default would be a > > >>> good > > >>> > >>> addition although I don't see it as strategic (at least we have > > >>> solved this > > >>> > >>> on our clusters with custom modules) > > >>> > >>>> * I would love to see improvement on masters scalability > for > > >>> large > > >>> > >>> clusters (our largest cluster is 3500 nodes and may start to > > >>> suffer from > > >>> > >>> the actor model) > > >>> > >>>> Something that I see as a very significant drawback to the > > >>> ecosystem at > > >>> > >>> large is the difficulty to write frameworks. In addition to > this, > > >>> most > > >>> > >>> open-source frameworks feel abandoned. Without good frameworks, > > >>> Mesos value > > >>> > >>> really decreases a lot (although it is very technically > strong). > > >>> > >>>> I think, making Mesos thrive would necessarily go through a > > >>> solution to > > >>> > >>> this issue. > > >>> > >>>> Something that I'd see as strategic would be the ability to > deploy > > >>> > >>> complex workloads on Mesos without having to write a new > > >>> framework. Random > > >>> > >>> idea: make Mesos really usable as a backend for Kubernetes (as > a > > >>> virtual > > >>> > >>> kubelet). This would remove a lot of barriers to use Mesos as a > > >>> strong > > >>> > >>> engine to operate a fleet of servers while allowing to use the > > >>> Kubernetes > > >>> > >>> API that apparently everybody loves. > > >>> > >>>> What do you think? > > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > >>>> -- > > >>> > >>>> Grégoire Seux > > >>> > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > ./zahoor > > > > > > Web: http://zahoor.in > > > Twit: @jmohamedzahoor > > > >
