I am attaching an email trace by Noel and Cliff from a question I
asked at the incubator mailing list, which basically said that we
don't have to do an incubator subproject for anything which we think
we can maintain - so Craig seems to be right in this issue if number
of opinions count ;)

regards,

Martin


On 5/14/05, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Cliff Schmidt wrote:
> 
> > you'd only need an incubator subproject if the code could not be
> > supported by the current MyFaces community.  However, if the
> > MyFaces PMC feels that the community already exists to maintain
> > the new code contribution, then there's no need for an incubator
> > subproject.
> 
> But the IP must still be vetted and recorded (q.v.,
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/site-author/projects
> /ip-clearance-template.html).
> 
>         --- Noel
> 
> 
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> 


On 5/15/05, Martin Marinschek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No there we have Ted and Craig saying something differently - now who
> of the two experts is right?
> 
> is it possible to develop something on Sourceforge (by non-commiters)
> and have it checked in to the ASF codebase by an ASF committer without
> going through the incubator?
> 
> Craig says yes - the committer has to take responsibility for sorting
> out the legal issues and everything
> 
> Ted says no - everything has to go through incubator.
> 
> May I suggest that it depends on the size and the clarity of the legal
> situation of the contribution with respect to the existing codebase -
> one component of one developer who puts the component into public
> domain might be okay, several would need to go through incubator?
> 
> regards,
> 
> Martin
> 
> On 5/15/05, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 5/11/05, Sean Schofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Would this satisfy the ASF's requirement for "All New Components Must Go
> > > > Through the Incubator" ? Hopefully...
> > >
> > > I think Ted's concern regarding this (from the myfaces-pmc thread) is
> > > that code that is *already developed* outside of ASF should not go
> > > straight into the project.  So for components that grow out of
> > > discussions on this board would not apply.  Hopefully that is what he
> > > meant anyways.
> >
> > It's more like all external "codebases" donated to the Foundation
> > *must* go through the Incubator.
> >
> > The two concerns are IP and Community. First, the ASF wants to be
> > positive that we do in fact own every line of code in our
> > repositories. Of course, under the Apache License, we don't mean "own"
> > in the exclusive sense. But "own" in the sense that we can put it
> > under the Apache License, and no one else has a legal right to
> > complain.
> >
> > If an external codebase could enter the ASF through any of our dozens
> > of projects, it would be too easy for a project to slip and allow in a
> > codebase with IP issues. So, when IBM donates Derby, it doesn't go
> > straight to db.apache.org, it goes to the Incubator first, where
> > another set of eyes can look it over.
> >
> > Now if the codebase is developed here in our repository, regardless of
> > its size, then we own it and we can put it under the Apache License.
> > It's only external codebases developed by non-committers that concern
> > Incubator.
> >
> > Of course, the ASF doesn't want code as much as we want community
> > (people who create, maintain, and support code). Before any large
> > donation is accepted, we need to know that there are *several* members
> > of our community who will support the code over the long term.
> >
> > Essentially, the Incubator is a front controller for new projects and
> > external code donations.
> >
> > A lot of projects maintain sandboxes to ensure that there is a
> > community support behind a codebase before making it part of the
> > trunk. Once it is part of the trunk, there is an expectation that
> > *all* of the committers are ready, willing, and able to support the
> > code over the long term.
> >
> > Another word for sandbox is "whiteboard directory", as mention in the
> > Rules for Revolutionaries.
> >
> > * http://incubator.apache.org/learn/rules-for-revolutionaries.html
> >
> > If you have a sandbox, or whiteboard, then it should be very, very
> > clear to anyone using the component that this code is not part of the
> > main distribution, *and* that it subject to change or removal without
> > notice. If its too easy to use the sandbox code, then people might not
> > realize that it's not part of the standard distribution.
> >
> > Of course, under SVN, it is quite easy to merge and move components
> > later, no matter where you hide them now :)
> >
> > Often, people will develop novel or "revolutionary" code in the
> > sandbox, then propose that it be promoted when the code is ready for
> > primetime. (Where primetime means the code is stable and there are
> > several people interested in using and supporting the code.)
> >
> > But, "evolutionary" code can be developed as part of the trunk, if
> > everyone agrees its something that needs to be part of the next
> > release. Generally, a sandbox is for questionable components that may
> > or may not be made part of the standard release.
> >
> > This is important, because Apache Projects are expected to fully
> > support whatever goes into a standard release.  If it goes into the
> > standard release, it should be bug-free in every subsequent release,
> > and if it we decide to remove it, we should go through a
> > deprecate-replace-remove cycle over two or more stable releases.
> >
> > Putting code in a standard release means we are committed to the code.
> >  Putting code in a sandbox is "throwing stuff on the wall and seeing
> > if it sticks" :)
> >
> > Whether a component *needs* to go through a sandbox would depend on
> > whether it *needs* to be part of the next standard release. If it's in
> > the trunk, and it's not done yet, then it becomes a blocker until it's
> > done (or moved out of the trunk).
> >
> >
> > On 5/11/05, Martin Marinschek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > What about the sourceforge project that has already been set up?
> >
> > As mentioned, some people on the Struts team setup a SourceForge site
> > to make it easier for non-committers to share code with the Struts
> > community. But it is not used as an actual sandbox. (Struts already
> > has one of those.) It's just a place where people can share Struts
> > extensions and sample applications outside of the standard release.
> >
> > Of course, if a non-committer wants to develop something and then
> > propose it to the Apache Struts Project, a good approach would be to
> > develop it on the SourceForge site. But, it would still have to go
> > through the incubator and all that.
> >
> > When a Struts committer want to develop something that might become
> > part of the Struts release or a new Struts subproject, we start it in
> > the ASF repository, not the SourceForge site.
> >
> > The cool thing about a sandbox, as used by Struts and Jakarta Commons,
> > is that you don't need group approval. You can start it up, and see
> > how it goes, without having to convince anyone first. It gives you a
> > chance to do the code, and then let the code do the talking.
> >
> > HTH, Ted.
> >
>

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