Martin Cooper wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, Oliver Rossmueller wrote:
>
>> Martin Cooper wrote:
>>
>>> I would strongly recommend that you not store your dependencies in the
>>> SVN repo. Consider the consequences if every ASF project did the same
>>> thing. There would be many dozens of copies of the exact same
>>> libraries taking up space in the repo, one (or more) per project. The
>>> repo would end up being clogged with binaries, many of them duplicates.
>>
>>
>> Martin,
>>
>> if saving hard disk space is the main argument, than it's -1 again. Of
>> course you end up with duplicates of the same jar in different projects
>> in the repository, but that's not the point. The point is simplicity of
>> the build process so it can be handled by any developer and not only the
>> MyFaces core team.
>>
>>>
>>> This is one reason that the ASF Java repo was created - so that there
>>> is one place that libraries can be placed, so that they are available
>>> to any project that needs them. This is a parallel to the Maven
>>> repository at ibiblio, but neither of these require that Maven be used
>>> for the builds.
>>>
>>> Also, as Sean points out, if you prefer not to make use of automatic
>>> downloads, you are free to configure your system that way. But for
>>> many, if not most, people, the automatic downloads give them a way to
>>> get up and running much more quickly than a manual configuration.
>>
>>
>> Of course I can configure anything manually, and I am also able to deal
>> with problems caused by failed automatic downloads. But that's because I
>> know how the build works. Consider somebody who just got the sources
>> from svn. The first step then would be to check for the existence of
>> build.xml and to run 'ant'. Now that first and straightforward attempt
>> fails because the default ant target does not download required jars or
>> the default target does download the jars but download fails for
>> whatever reason. From the POV of named user what would you do? I would
>> throw MyFaces to the trash can and don't have a look at it for at least
>> half a year as those MyFaces guys seem to be not able to handle their
>> build process so how good and stable can their software be?
>
>
> You don't have much patience, do you? ;-) Personally, I would look for
> an answer before just throwing it in the trash, and I suspect most
> people would do the same.

Well, there is the JSF RI I can get from Sun without any problems, so
why would I care for fixing a broken MyFaces build if I just want to
give it a try? If the first impression you get from an open-source
product is a broken build what will you think? To provide convidence
does look different.

>
>
>> That's my point: ease of build for anybody. It should not be necessary
>> to be an ant and subversion guru to handle the build.
>
>
> Come on, Oliver, nobody has said anything about needing to be an Ant
> or SVN guru. Unless you count typing 'ant' as being an Ant guru. ;-)
>
> OK, so what do you do when not all your dependencies have licenses
> that allow you to store them in the SVN repo? All it takes is one.
> That will immediately and permanently break your nice clean "pull
> everything from the repo and go" model.

That's the first argument so far that makes kind of sense. But do we
have this problem the moment? As far as I know that's not the case. So
why are we trying to fix a problem that does not exist?

Oliver


>
> -- 
> Martin Cooper
>
>
>> Oliver
>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Martin Cooper
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Oliver Rossmueller wrote:
>>>
>>>> -1 on that. Please don't make the build more complex than needed. Not
>>>> any stuff that seems to be cool to implement should be implemented.
>>>>
>>>> What's your problem with having the required libs in the
>>>> repository? For
>>>> me there are advantages only:
>>>>
>>>> - one source fits it all: you check out the svn module and have
>>>> everything you need to build
>>>> - the libs are versioned with the code which depends on the libs
>>>> - you have everything maintained in one place, the svn repository; no
>>>> need for external jar repositories or stuff like that
>>>> - no build is blocked because the download of a required lib is not
>>>> working for whatever reason (firewalls, network failures, ...)
>>>>
>>>> If you ever had the html of a http 500 page as the contents of a jar
>>>> file in your maven repository instead of the required jar itself you
>>>> know what I'm talking about. So do not try to imitate maven just by
>>>> other means but follow the KISS principle and keep it simple, please.
>>>>
>>>> Oliver
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Manfred Geiler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> yes, looks good
>>>>> +1 for automatic download of jars
>>>>>
>>>>> -Manfred
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2005/6/21, Sean Schofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> First off, thanks to James Mitchell (of the Struts team) who has
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> teaching me the wonders of svn:externals.  I hope my SVN reorg will
>>>>>> make him proud.  :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While James and I were discussing the Struts layout he also
>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>> something interesting.  They no longer keep any jar files in their
>>>>>> repository.  He has figured out a way to deal with the jar file
>>>>>> dependencies that does *not* require Maven (ie. can be done from
>>>>>> Ant.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm planning on doing something similar as part of the reorg.  Check
>>>>>> out the following steps that allow you to build struts 1.2 without
>>>>>> specifying a single jar file in your properties ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $svn co
>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/struts/core/branches/STRUTS_1_2_BRANCH/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> struts-1.2
>>>>>> $cd struts-1.2
>>>>>> $ant download-dependencies release
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice!  I see no reason to deprive ourselves of the same cool build
>>>>>> process ;-)  Also, its possible to build using local jar files if
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is your cup of tea (just don't run the download-dependencies target
>>>>>> and specify the jar file locations in your local props file.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Oliver Rossmueller
>>>> Software Engineer and IT-Consultant
>>>> Hamburg, Germany
>>>> http://www.rossmueller.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Oliver Rossmueller
>> Software Engineer and IT-Consultant
>> Hamburg, Germany
>> http://www.rossmueller.com
>>
>>


-- 
Oliver Rossmueller
Software Engineer and IT-Consultant
Hamburg, Germany
http://www.rossmueller.com

Reply via email to