I¹ll throw in my support as well.

Certainly on some processors different timers have different current draw
and require different sleep states.  For wearables, this is super critical
for battery life.  I expect that folks will want to use alternate timers
for the system tick to maximize battery life.

Maybe I¹m saying the same thing as Will, but I think the right approach is
to have the system tick defined in the MCU but be able to be turned off
like Sterling said.  If I were implementing a board with the MCU and I
turned off the standard system tick, I¹d want to implement my systick code
in my BSP. 

Paul

On 2/2/16, 2:24 PM, "marko kiiskila" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I agree with Sterling.
>
>MCU specific code seems like the best place to keep this. For the cases
>where BSP wants to use a non-default
>timer, it can influence MCU compilation.
>
>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:05 PM, Sterling Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> I think even in those use cases, that would probably apply per-BSP.  I
>>don't think its very common that the OS timer would be used differently
>>within the same BSP.  Have you/has anyone seen cases where the only
>>difference was the time source, but otherwise the BSP was identical?
>> 
>> In order to setup the compile options: you would have a function to
>>setup the OS time tick, that would get defined by the MCU.  You would
>>surround that function with:
>> 
>> #ifndef USE_BSP_TICKER
>> int
>> os_setup_timer()
>> {....}
>> #endif
>> 
>> Then, if the BSP wanted to override the os_setup_timer(), it would
>>export the following capability:
>> 
>> BSP_OS_TICKER_DEF
>> 
>> Each MCU must, in order to respect that setting have the following in
>>it's egg.yml file:
>> 
>> egg.clags.BSP_OS_TICKER_DEF: -DUSE_BSP_TICKER
>> 
>> Sterling
>> 
>> On 2/2/16 12:41 PM, will sanfilippo wrote:
>>> Well, that would have been a better way to put it if you ask me. :-)
>>> 
>>> A good example of picking a different timer would be time accuracy vs
>>>power related savings. For example, a device that is constantly powered
>>>may want to use a timer off a high accuracy crystal as opposed to one
>>>that is lower accuracy but conserves power. Another reason might be
>>>timer capabilities; one timer may be able to do more/less than another
>>>timer and application requirements could force use of a different
>>>timer. I agree, ³generally² we could pick the correct timer but not in
>>>every case (imo).
>>> 
>>> I see what you are proposing. Well, at least I think so. The only
>>>thing I am not sure of in your proposal is where in the MCU specific
>>>directories this would go. What would the API call be and what file
>>>would it reside in?
>>> 
>>> Will
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Sterling Hughes
>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Will -
>>>> 
>>>> I didn't mean anything too harsh by calling it insanity- what I meant
>>>>was "it seems really hard to have every build project define the cpu
>>>>system timer."
>>>> 
>>>> What are the specific cases where you'd define which system timer to
>>>>use on a per-project basis?  I could potentially see scaling CPU usage
>>>>during system operation- but that seems like a different API to me.
>>>> 
>>>> I was proposing that we make it default per MCU, and optionally
>>>>per-BSP by using the newt capability API to create a define in the MCU
>>>>specific directories (-DUSE_BSP_TICKER) which would ifdef away the OS
>>>>ticker and allow the BSP to override it.
>>>> 
>>>> Sterling.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 11:37 AM, will sanfilippo <[email protected]>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Insanity? That is a bit harsh dont you think? I dont think using
>>>>>words like ³insanity, ridiculous, stupid, etc" are conducive to
>>>>>having folks contribute to the project. Just my opinionŠ
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am not quite sure what you are proposing, meaning I would not know
>>>>>what to implement based on your reply. It must be my insanity.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:21 AM, Sterling Hughes <[email protected]>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/2/16 10:15 AM, will sanfilippo wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Porting the OS to the nrf51 has exposed an issue for certain
>>>>>>>cortex-M MCU¹s, namely the lack of SysTick. Furthermore, it may be
>>>>>>>advantageous from a power perspective to use a different timer for
>>>>>>>the OS time tick. Thus, the problem is this: how does the developer
>>>>>>>pick the timer to use for the os time tick?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Personally, I think this is a project/os configuration option.
>>>>>>>Placing this decision in hw/mcu would force every project that used
>>>>>>>the MCU to use a particular timer. Putting it in the bsp is
>>>>>>>slightly better, but then every project using that BSP would use
>>>>>>>the timer chosen by the BSP. One possible benefit to putting this
>>>>>>>decision in the bsp (or mcu) is that it shields the developer from
>>>>>>>HW/MCU specifics. Not sure that this is a good thing though!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What I am thinking of is something more like this:
>>>>>>> * The HAL provides a set of timers to use: rtc, generic timer,
>>>>>>>cputime, systick. Note that some of these currently dont exist. :-)
>>>>>>> * The developer has some means of picking one of these HAL timers
>>>>>>>to use.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If folks agree with the basic idea, any thoughts on how to do
>>>>>>>this? Should we modify the os_init() or os_start() API? Should
>>>>>>>there be some sort of os configuration file per project? In the
>>>>>>>project egg? In the target?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I definitely don't think this should be per-project: that's
>>>>>>insanity.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Generally it's clear on an MCU which timer is best suited for the
>>>>>>OS to run off of.  If we want to override this depending on a BSP, I
>>>>>>think we could have the BSP export a capability BSP_SYSTICK, and if
>>>>>>that capability is specified, the MCU definition will not include
>>>>>>the OS definition.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sterling
>>>>> 
>>> 
>

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