Hi Toni,

On Wed, 14 Mar 2018, 07:35 , <toni.ep...@eppleton.de> wrote:

> Regarding the architecture: In a plain DukeScript application we're
> starting a normal Java process. This process starts a HTML5Renderer using a
> "Presenter", e.g embedded chromium. The task of the Presenter is to take
> care of the communication and make it transparent to the developer.

Thanks for the info, and you know I'm sold on this approach, at least for
some uses.

But a big question, which is what I'm trying to get to - do we have a
simple, Apache license compatible and robust way to build and deploy such a
thing cross platform?  And JavaFX doesn't count! ;-)  And if not, how do we
get there?

If we had that, and the tooling in the IDE using our own framework to do
that, I think we'd have a powerful (and unique?) offering amongst Java

Note that I'm mainly considering standalone applications built with the IDE
there - I think we need to separate that out a little from thoughts of the
future of the IDE, although it might help prove whether that approach is at
all feasible.

I'm less keen on the selective HTML-ifying of the IDE using JavaFX.  If
that's no longer shipped with the JDK but retains its current license we
may even have difficulties using what we have under Apache?

Regarding Web APIs, I agree with Sean that not every browser out there can
> handle it, but if you control the browser, you're way better off than with
> JavaFX 3D, because modern browser are using fast and well maintained
> rendering pipelines. Chrome, for example uses ANGLE to map commands to
> DirectX and OpenGL. I think tere were discussions about using ANGLE for
> javaFX as well to improve performance, but I haven't heard what came out of
> this.

That Web GL is faster than JavaFX doesn't entirely surprise me, but it's
also noticeably slower than using a direct OpenGL binding with JOGL or
LWJGL.  And at least the latter is also getting Vulkan support.

We do like our bloated abstractions in the Java world, but sometimes bare
metal is still the way to go! :-)

Best wishes,

Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

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