On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:36 PM, Zubin Wadia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sanjiva, > > I am confused by your comments. Where in Assaf's post did he mention that > WSDL cannot be torn out without breaking the client? > > Additionally, I can't understand how Assaf's comment about JSON implies its > superiority over XML in RESTful architectures. The message I inferred was: > Good solutions are a result of precient design that isn't a prisoner of the > tools & frameworks. > > Seems like a perfectly legitimate premise and one I agree with. > > God only knows why this became a REST vs. WS-* debate, I think that's > precisely what he was trying to avoid with the last sentence of his post!
Thanks! Assaf > > Cheers, > > Zubin. > > On 5/19/08, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Assaf Arkin wrote: >> >>> Besides the management console, we have three other ongoing projects in >>> Ode. >>> One adds HTTP binding and REST support to the engine, so you can use Ode >>> to >>> interact with and develop services conforming to the Web architecture. >>> You >>> could build a JavaScript front-end to interact with the process, or have >>> the >>> process tap into services that don't pay the WS-* tax. In certain cases, >>> >> >> Ah, a true fan of WS-* ;-). >> >> The best way to start is to start small, but always keep an eye on the >>> target. You don't have to do JSON in the first release, just XML may be >>> good enough, but watch out that your data model can map nicely to either >>> one, because XML magically mapped to JSON has neither the benefit of being >>> XML nor the benefit of being JSON. >>> >> >> JSON or XML or plain text or whatever has absolutely no impact on whether a >> design is RESTful or not. You appear to be suggesting that somehow JSON is >> more RESTful than XML .. which really is somewhat ironic given the "O" in >> JSON stands for "object" :). >> >> You don't have to do any PUT or DELETE, >>> maybe your first service is just a lot of queries, but watch out that >>> you're >>> not building something that can never accommodate for that. A good idea >>> is >>> to look at REST as an interface and see if you can tear out and replace >>> the >>> implementation without breaking all your clients: are the resources you're >>> using well thought out, or could they only be implemented by FooBar? >>> >> >> Sorry but this is hogwash. I don't disagree with most of your post but to >> suggest that a service interface described in WSDL cannot be torn out and >> replaced without breaking clients is silly. That's *exactly* what WSDL was >> designed for. REST nor any other approach to architecture automatically >> guarantees proper decoupling; that requires careful design. >> >> There's a lot of fascination with XHR, which can be put to good use to >>> enhance a service. But there are also ways to use XHR to hide the service >>> from the world. Can I bookmark this page and return to it later? Can I >>> IM >>> this link to someone else so they can look at it? Can I subscribe to >>> changes from my feed reader or pull this into my calendar? Can I have a >>> widget that shows this content on my desktop? The temptation to build >>> desktop-like applications that are closed off the Web is there, but best >>> ignored. >>> >> >> XHR is useful and necessary to make your interface more interactive. >> Otherwise you have to load a brand new entire page everytime something is >> done .. which most people consider 90s style Web UI design rather than >> modern design. Obviously YMMV. >> >> If you want the benefits of REST, always think how to keep clients >>> decoupled >>> from servers, and which principles - not tools - will get you there. >>> >> >> To get the benefits of REST you have to go beyond decoupling- you have to >> design a set of interlinked resources that are easily navigable by clients. >> I agree that tools cannot do that. >> >> Sanjiva. >> -- >> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. >> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ >> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ >> >> >
