Yes, I see your point, and it's a good one. It would be better implemented in a 
replaceable and configurable way.

-David


On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> No, I'm not saying I want to work on it. No, I'm not trying to force anyone 
> to do anything.
> 
> The subject of the thread is ESME implementation. I'm sharing ideas on that 
> subject. I'm making suggestions. I'm providing examples of how similar 
> features in OFBiz were implemented previously.
> 
> -Adrian
> 
> David E Jones wrote:
>> Just to be clear, are you saying you want to work on this?
>> Please keep in mind that people are free to contribute what they will. Maybe 
>> we can vote or all agree on not allowing something in, but we can't force 
>> anyone to do anything. We also shouldn't, though many of us often do, imply 
>> that others should do something just because we think they should.
>> Sharing ideas is great, but unless someone actually does it, then by 
>> definition it ain't gonna happen.
>> -David
>> On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> Developing support for it would be fine, if the messaging feature was set 
>>> up as a gateway.
>>> 
>>> I'm not aware of any generic specifications for payment gateways, yet OFBiz 
>>> accommodates a variety of them.
>>> 
>>> The point I have been trying to make is this: if we're going to add an 
>>> instant messaging or twitter-like feature to OFBiz, let's do it in a way 
>>> that works for more than one messaging service.
>>> 
>>> -Adrian
>>> 
>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>> Then you'll have to develop support for it, or get someone else to do it 
>>>> for you.
>>>> I'm not aware of any generic specification we could implement to that 
>>>> would support ESME as well as other options. Is there one you have in mind?
>>>> -David
>>>> On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> What if I want the messaging feature, but I already have a messaging 
>>>>> server that isn't ESME?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>> we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a
>>>>>> full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease
>>>>>> of installation and the convenient license.
>>>>>> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java
>>>>>> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat)
>>>>>> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to 
>>>>>>> ignore them."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James 
>>>>>>> is an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The 
>>>>>>> integration Wiki page 
>>>>>>> (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) 
>>>>>>> already suggests something like that.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi everybody who commented.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the
>>>>>>>> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an
>>>>>>>> implementation point of view. After some investigation however we 
>>>>>>>> consider ESME not only an add-on but
>>>>>>>> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when
>>>>>>>> OFBiz is installed.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That means:
>>>>>>>> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME.
>>>>>>>> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system
>>>>>>>> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes
>>>>>>>> (commonext component), ESME will replace it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The proposal:
>>>>>>>> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the
>>>>>>>> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory
>>>>>>>> part of the system.
>>>>>>>> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz
>>>>>>>> component, use the framework authentication.
>>>>>>>> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime.
>>>>>>>> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Further plans:
>>>>>>>> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz 
>>>>>>>> installations
>>>>>>>> exchange ESME messages via webservices.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Hans.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services 
>>>>>>>>> would be useful.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway 
>>>>>>>>> to these external services. In other words, take the same approach we 
>>>>>>>>> use with external payment processors. I believe that would be less 
>>>>>>>>> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service 
>>>>>>>>> into OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not,
>>>>>>>>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have
>>>>>>>>>> business cases for it:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat 
>>>>>>>>>> possibility
>>>>>>>>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2
>>>>>>>>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the 
>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for
>>>>>>>>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business
>>>>>>>>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these
>>>>>>>>>> benefits)
>>>>>>>>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: 
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed 
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a
>>>>>>>>>> bonus.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from
>>>>>>>>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking 
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their
>>>>>>>>>> network of twitter accounts.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my 
>>>>>>>>>> ESME
>>>>>>>>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting 
>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>> to know so much new people in such a short time.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even 
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too
>>>>>>>>>> conservative and always be open to new developments!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to
>>>>>>>>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is
>>>>>>>>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter 
>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>> they are doing...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> more info at
>>>>>>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> any thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Hans (@hansbak)
>>>>>>>>>>> 

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