Hey Guys, I had a chance to talk to Sean Kelly and magicaltrout yesterday and got some really helpful feedback from them. Below is the quick summary of the chat and also attached is the IRC chat log.
*Summary:* ------------------------------------- - Both Sean and Magicaltrout were excited about the site and liked many of the features - Sean liked the different options to Sign In and suggested support for OpenID and Stackoverflow - The code/javadoc part seemed interesting to both. A great suggestion which came up was; being able to attach quick notes to the source code itself. "I believe annotating the code directly and in a visual distributed environment is far better than in our usual mailing list. When we discuss bugs, features, improvements in the mailing list or a chat room, we're often having to re-assemble the context of the code mentally f*rom snippets in quoted sections" * This is in our todos and should be in one of our next releases. - The code tab did have some issues with formatting causing some scrolling issues with the latest Lion OSX and larger screen resolutions which we will be fixed soon. - Both of them thought being able to create UML like diagrams online is a really helpful resource and will be particularly useful while discussing refactoring apart from other documentation. - The visual exploration is in early alpha and we need to do a better job tagging it as such. Magicaltrout faced some drawing bugs at higher resolutions which we will be working on. ------------------------------------- We are working to improve all the different aspects of the website. I would really like to hear more from all of you. I'll be available on the #OODT group on IRC chat under name "abhi16". Thanks, Abhishek On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Vineet Sinha <[email protected]> wrote: > Chris, Sounds great. We will do exactly that. > > Vineet > > > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Vineet, >> >> IRC might be an option. There is an #oodt IRC channel on >> irc.freenode.netthat some of the gang hang out in. But yes, >> decisions aren't made there, and any relevant discussion is brought back >> to the list. I'm happy to have a more interactive >> discussion there, and follow that mantra (if relevant, comes back to the >> list). >> >> Thanks! >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> On Apr 10, 2012, at 8:17 AM, Vineet Sinha wrote: >> >> > Chris, I understand the need for openness and transparency. I am a >> strong proponent of it. >> > >> > We can either do this on traditional IM clients and post logs here, or >> conduct this over IRC. >> > >> > If those don't work, conducting it over this list is possible -- but >> much harder for both us and those giving us the feedback that we need. >> Please confirm that you would like to see this happen. >> > >> > -Vineet >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > Hi Vineet, >> > >> > Thanks, we'd be happy to discuss on the public lists -- but I can speak >> for myself and at least those >> > on the PMC that private discussions centering around technology at the >> ASF are usually bad b/c they >> > take away from the openness and transparency of the foundation. >> > >> > I think some general high level questions RE: the tool here on the >> list, and discussion would be good. >> > As for other more interactive things, that require participation off >> list, I'm not really interested in doing that. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Chris >> > >> > On Apr 10, 2012, at 7:25 AM, Vineet Sinha wrote: >> > >> > > Chris, We do have a number of higher level questions - that >> discussing on the list here sounds like a good point. >> > > >> > > However, we fear that we have added a lot of features currently, and >> we need to spend some time improving the usability. This is usually >> interactive - ideally with a screen-share and either a chat session or a >> phone call. We want this to be convenient and are willing to make sure to >> be available even very late. >> > > >> > > If you or anyone else here is able to spare a few minutes for this >> usability session - it will help us a lot. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Vineet >> > > -- >> > > President & CTO, Architexa - www.architexa.com >> > > Understand & Document Code In Seconds >> > > >> > > >> > > On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > > Hi Abhishek, >> > > >> > > Thanks a ton -- I have been clicking around and I really appreciate >> you guys >> > > doing this! I'm happy to discuss here on [email protected] thanks! >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Chris >> > > >> > > On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:36 PM, Abhishek Rakshit wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hey Guys, >> > > > >> > > > As you might know, since hearing from the OODT team, we have setup >> the >> > > > project on CodeMaps: http://www.codemaps.org/c/Apache_OODT. We are >> now >> > > > looking for some feedback from the OODT community. >> > > > >> > > > I saw that Rishi mentioned the code search support, which is >> something that >> > > > we have been considering adding. We have implemented some powerful >> features >> > > > and have many really cool ideas in pipeline. It will be really >> helpful to >> > > > hear your thoughts about them. >> > > > >> > > > Please drop us a note if you guys are available to talk for 15 >> minutes. We >> > > > really appreciate your support. >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > Abhishek Rakshit >> > > > -- >> > > > Lead Engineer - User Experience, >> > > > Architexa - www.architexa.com >> > > > [email protected] >> > > >> > > >> > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> > > Senior Computer Scientist >> > > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> > > Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> > > Email: [email protected] >> > > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > > Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> > > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> > Senior Computer Scientist >> > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> > Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> > Email: [email protected] >> > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > >> > >> >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> Senior Computer Scientist >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> Email: [email protected] >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >
[16:28] <nutjob> Ah, I like I can sign in with not just Facebook or Twitter, but also Github. [16:29] <nutjob> Facebook certainly has reach, but amongst devops it tends to be frowned upon. [16:29] <abhi16> No issues feel free to tell me what you think would be valuable to you. We are in the process of considering support for other languages too. [16:29] <abhi16> Yes thats why we added github [16:29] <nutjob> Great! [16:29] <nutjob> OK, I'm signed up and now looking at OODT code. [16:29] <abhi16> We were also looking if we you include Stack Overflow somehow [16:30] <nutjob> Oh yeah, Stack Overflow would be ideal! [16:30] <nutjob> Or, in general, an OpenID provider too. [16:30] <nutjob> Lots of Devops have OpenID, despite the failure of OpenID to catch on with the general populace. [16:30] <abhi16> hmm alright, will take a note [16:30] <nutjob> OK, code formatting might be a bit off for some OODT code. [16:30] <nutjob> A lot of OODT was written with 8-space tabs and 132 column lines [16:31] <nutjob> Take a look at this image... [16:31] <nutjob> http://min.us/mbqV6JLiYy [16:32] <nutjob> The comments in green are actually all lined-up in a column to the right of the code [16:32] <nutjob> but because the window seems limited to about 80 columns of code, they all wrap to below each line [16:32] <abhi16> Surprising.. [16:32] <abhi16> I was thinking you should have gotten a scrollbar [16:33] <abhi16> What browser is this? [16:33] <nutjob> Also, stretching the browser window doesn't widen the code area; see http://min.us/mbpq8YMzLa [16:33] <nutjob> This is Safari 5.1.5; let me try on other browsers [16:34] <nutjob> Getting the same behavior with Firefox 11.0 [16:34] <abhi16> Alright will have to look more into how it looks in Safari. [16:35] <abhi16> Alright will make sure to check it [16:35] <nutjob> OK, great. Let me try some of the interactive features now. [16:36] <abhi16> So quickly, what do you think about the code tab [16:36] <nutjob> (BTW, same wide-code issue with Chrome 18.0.1025.151.) [16:36] <abhi16> Also do you by any chance have Lion [16:36] <nutjob> abhi16: Yes, i'm on Lion [16:36] <abhi16> Aah I think I know the problem [16:37] <nutjob> Overall the Code tab looks nice. The arrangement is similar to Javadocs, and that familiarity encourages ease of use [16:37] <abhi16> I read somewhere the rendering in Lion is changed a bit [16:37] <nutjob> Ah, OK. [16:37] <nutjob> Ah, I like the "Callers" menu. [16:37] <nutjob> That's a nice way to get to users of a method quickly. [16:38] <abhi16> So if someone adds a quick question to and existing method or class here do you think people would answer that? [16:39] <nutjob> Yes, especially since the context of the code is already provided [16:39] <abhi16> Great...Having it tied to the actual source does help in quick understanding [16:39] <nutjob> You bet. [16:40] <nutjob> Oh, here's a small error: http://min.us/mdJSusk5H [16:40] <abhi16> Is there something more which you think will be beneficial to you? [16:40] <nutjob> the word "parse" is hyperlinked even though it's in a string literal [16:41] <abhi16> Nice catch.. need to sort out these kinks [16:41] <nutjob> I believe annotating the code directly and in a visual distributed environment is far better than in our usual mailing list [16:41] <nutjob> When we discuss bugs, features, improvements in the mailing list or a chat room, we're often having to re-assemble the context of the code mentally [16:41] <nutjob> From snippets in quoted sections [16:42] <abhi16> Yes it helps keep a tab on everything happening related to some particular piece of code [16:42] <nutjob> Right, I'd love just to click on a line and attach a note [16:42] <nutjob> Or link it to another module, class, method [16:43] <abhi16> That is actually in our pipeline.. we just wanted to see if people actually wanted it [16:43] <abhi16> I guess votes are rising for that feature :) [16:43] <nutjob> Heh, great! [16:44] <abhi16> Did you take a look at the diagrams? [16:44] <nutjob> I just started playing with that feature [16:44] <abhi16> ok [16:44] <nutjob> You've got a UML-like editor in the browser! [16:44] <abhi16> Ya we have built something simple for people to edit diagrams online [16:45] <abhi16> SO that they don't have to install anything [16:45] <nutjob> That's insanely great. [16:45] <abhi16> Glad to hear you like it. [16:46] <abhi16> So the vision is letting you create a concept note then tie it with a code snippet or a diagram. [16:47] <nutjob> Wow [16:47] <nutjob> I'm impressed! [16:47] <abhi16> :) [16:48] <abhi16> Do you see yourself using it for your documentation when available? [16:48] <magicaltrout> blimey [16:48] <nutjob> Yes, especially when discussing refactorings [16:48] <magicaltrout> life [16:48] <nutjob> Oh hi magicaltrout! [16:48] <nutjob> Also in explaining the architecture to a newbie [16:50] <nutjob> abhi16: full-screen mode is especially handy [16:50] <nutjob> Gets rid of all the surrounding detritus and lets you focus on your diagram [16:50] <abhi16> Yup thats the idea [16:51] <abhi16> Right now the support is mostly class diagrams, but we will also be adding Layered and Sequence diagrams [16:52] <abhi16> nutjob: Any particular improvement you would like to suggest in teh diagram section? [16:53] <abhi16> Hey magicaltrout.. [16:53] <nutjob> abhi16: it might be useful to able to re-arrange the diagrams [16:54] <nutjob> For example, the "Overview of OODT" appears as the last diagram; I'd prefer that as the first. [16:54] <nutjob> Being able to drag them into a preferred order would allow us to explain the architecture and implementation of OODT in a top-down fashion [16:54] <nutjob> If that's not possible, perhaps just a "Sort by…" option would be ince [16:54] <nutjob> nice* [16:55] <abhi16> magicaltrout: I was just showing nutjob the project we setup for OODT: http://www.codemaps.org/c/Apache_OODT [16:55] <abhi16> nutjob: agreed we'll have to look into some king of ordering [16:55] <nutjob> OK great. I'd start simple [16:55] <magicaltrout> i was just flicking through it abhi16 [16:55] <magicaltrout> looks like a very useful resource [16:56] <nutjob> abhi16: thanks for setting this up for us. Will you be online in a few hours? [16:56] <nutjob> I've got more feedback, but I need to drive to a meeting. [16:56] <nutjob> If not, I'll email you (and cc [email protected]) [16:56] <abhi16> I most likely will be [16:56] <nutjob> OK great! [16:56] <abhi16> That'll work too, thanks [16:56] <nutjob> Fantastic. [16:56] <nutjob> Thanks for the preview. [16:57] <nutjob> And Python-support: +100000 [16:57] <abhi16> nutjob: really appreciate your time [16:57] <nutjob> Likewise! [16:57] <nutjob> Back later. [16:57] == nutjob has changed nick to nutjob|mtg [16:57] <abhi16> later [16:57] <nutjob|mtg> PS: See ya magicaltrout!~ [16:59] <magicaltrout> o/ [16:59] <magicaltrout> love you too nutjob|mtg [16:59] <abhi16> magicaltrout: Any feedback about the code or diagram tabs? [17:01] <magicaltrout> personally I have a 27" imac so it'd be nice if the code window was a little wider so the horizontal scrollers went away [17:02] <abhi16> Yes I can see the problem there :) [17:03] <abhi16> We are looking at making it better and remove all the scrollbars somehow [17:03] <abhi16> Is there a particular part of OODT you work with?
