I tried with 400 threads. I checked the deployed server.xml and the
maxThreads has been applied to the running instance.

You can see a very slight improvement in the CPU:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/Performance+Testing#PerformanceTesting-4GBOpenMeetings4GBKMS400maxThreads

It's almost not visible, but if you look VERY close you can see that it's
not quite 95% CPU like in the previous test but more like 89% CPU with 400
threads. Still not good, but 5-10% better. That is kind of the amount/scale
of improvement I would expect using thread parameters.

The video pods are still disappearing, again, slightly better than before,
but still most rooms have at least 1 pod missing.

I think it is really time to look into some proper performance
metrics/logs. So we can get a picture of where the bottlenecks are.

Thanks
Sebastian

Sebastian Wagner
Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url>
<https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url>


On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 23:27, [email protected] <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Sorry but access log just counts calls. It doesn't contain call length.
> Which is the thing interesting.
> Also as you mentioned: We have a mix of HTTP and websocket calls.
> Web-Socket doesn't show up in access logs.
>
> It's just not useful. You can find out some very basic metrics. But not
> good enough for diagnosing.
>
> Thanks
> Sebastian
>
> Sebastian Wagner
> Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>
> <https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url>
> <https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url>
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 23:16, Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> tomcat has accesslog valve
>> it should be enabled by default
>>
>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:49, [email protected] <[email protected]
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm not sure. Like I say: I stagger room entry by 5-10min. So it's not
>> > really a DDoS surge of users. It's a steady but slow growth.
>> >
>> > You might be right, there could be such an issue somewhere. Just quite
>> > difficult to find without call statistics rights now.
>> >
>> > Have we looked into enabling some basic performance logs?
>> > If you just have all API/WebSocket invocations logged (configurable) for
>> > performance analytics, you can find those kind of issues very easy.
>> > Capture them and sort by call length, call numbers, sort by top ten =>
>> And
>> > you get very quickly to a result.
>> >
>> > Some of those performance logging frameworks are very easy to enable.
>> You
>> > can just annotate methods in Java code. And depending on log settings it
>> > will then print those statistics to the log file.
>> > Even for example into a format that can be further ingested into
>> Prometheus
>> > for performance monitoring and graphing of results. Or for example in
>> case
>> > of Prometheus generate a HTTP endpoint that exposes the metrics for
>> > generating statistics.
>> >
>> > See:
>> >
>> >    - https://github.com/prometheus/client_java
>> >    -
>> >
>> >
>> https://github.com/prometheus/client_java/blob/master/simpleclient_spring_web/src/main/java/io/prometheus/client/spring/web/PrometheusTimeMethod.java
>> >    -
>> >
>> >
>> https://prometheus.github.io/client_java/io/prometheus/client/spring/web/PrometheusTimeMethod.html
>> >
>> > There might be other alternatives to Prometheus. But it is the current
>> tool
>> > most widely supported and it seems with a lot of SDKs, examples and
>> > support. If we would have such tools available now I think it would be
>> > quite easy to pinpoint the bottlenecks. Doesn't need any JProfiler or
>> > Yourkit. Those are useful but the setup is a bit harder and you
>> constantly
>> > end up enabling/disabling the profiling.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Sebastian
>> >
>> > Sebastian Wagner
>> > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
>> > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > <
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > >
>> > <
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 22:31, Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Previous time I saw such many-users-same-time issues
>> > > it was because of too many Ajax requests in room
>> > > I have moved lot's of them to WS messages and things get better
>> > >
>> > > Wicket Ajax requests blocks all pages, maybe further improvements are
>> > > required
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:27, Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > fair enough :)
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:26, [email protected] <
>> > > [email protected]>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> I think adding cores at some point will be good.
>> > > >> But we need to get to some reasonable user numbers on a single
>> > > >> core/reasonable memory.
>> > > >> Once those numbers are good => Scale it up.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I have a try with the threads and report back.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Thanks,
>> > > >> Seb
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
>> > > >> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> <
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> <
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 22:23, Maxim Solodovnik <
>> [email protected]>
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > OK
>> > > >> > no cores if it is expensive
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > just thought multithreaded application can benefit from multiple
>> > cores
>> > > >> :)
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:21, [email protected] <
>> > > >> [email protected]>
>> > > >> > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > I don't really want to add more cores. The docker container has
>> > > >> exactly 1
>> > > >> > > core just for OpenMeetings. And 4GB memory.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > We can try with 2 cores. But the price tags on those
>> improvements
>> > > are
>> > > >> > > getting into a range of not viable options. Except you improve
>> the
>> > > >> > > performance by a factor of 10.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Thanks
>> > > >> > > Seb
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
>> > > >> > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> > > <
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > <
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 22:13, Maxim Solodovnik <
>> > [email protected]
>> > > >
>> > > >> > > wrote:
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > Maybe you can add one more core to OM
>> > > >> > > > how many do you have right now?
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:11, [email protected] <
>> > > >> > > [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > I will have a look with 300 and repeat it.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > BTW are you using dockerized OM? how are you passing `xmx`
>> via
>> > > >> > > > > CATALINA_OPTS
>> > > >> > > > > ?
>> > > >> > > > > => I have a custom Openmeetings docker container and I set
>> > those
>> > > >> via
>> > > >> > > > > CATALINA_OPS that are passed into the OpenMeetings
>> instance.
>> > > >> > > > > I can see in the cataline.out logs that it reads the
>> values in
>> > > and
>> > > >> > uses
>> > > >> > > > it.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Are you setting additional memory for docker?
>> > > >> > > > > => The Docker container itself also has 4GB memory
>> available.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > If you compare the graphs from the 2GB and 4GB test you can
>> > see
>> > > >> that
>> > > >> > > > memory
>> > > >> > > > > usage in % has dropped by exactly 50%. So it seems pretty
>> > > >> convincing
>> > > >> > > that
>> > > >> > > > > those settings are all correctly applied.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Thanks
>> > > >> > > > > Seb
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for HTML5
>> > > >> > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> > > > > <
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > <
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 22:04, Maxim Solodovnik <
>> > > >> [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > the default is 150
>> > > >> > > > > > could you set to 300?
>> > > >> > > > > > we will see is there will be improvement
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > BTW are you using dockerized OM? how are you passing
>> `xmx`
>> > via
>> > > >> > > > > > CATALINA_OPTS
>> > > >> > > > > > ?
>> > > >> > > > > > Are you setting additional memory for docker?
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:00, [email protected] <
>> > > >> > > > > [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > I can try and re-run, how many would you recommend
>> worth
>> > > >> trying
>> > > >> > for
>> > > >> > > > > this
>> > > >> > > > > > > scenario ?
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > Thanks
>> > > >> > > > > > > Seb
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> > > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> > > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> > > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting for
>> HTML5
>> > > >> > > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> > > > > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 21:56, Maxim Solodovnik <
>> > > >> > > [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > Have you tried to increase maxThreads for Tomcat?
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 15:26, [email protected] <
>> > > >> > > > > > > [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > I doubled it to 4GB OpenMeetings and 4GB KMS. I
>> > updated
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> > > > docker
>> > > >> > > > > > > > instance
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > to run Openmeetings with xms=2GB and Xmx=4GB.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > And I did run exactly the same test again:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >  - 50-60 users
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >  - staggered to enter in a time period around
>> 5-10min
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >  - distributed into 10 conference rooms 4x4 and 2
>> > > webinars
>> > > >> > with
>> > > >> > > > 20
>> > > >> > > > > > > users
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > each
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >  - each test runs calls the API to
>> > login/createRoomHash
>> > > >> and
>> > > >> > > then
>> > > >> > > > > load
>> > > >> > > > > > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > URL with the room (plus start webcam/audio stream
>> in
>> > the
>> > > >> > > > conference
>> > > >> > > > > > > > rooms)
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > The results look almost the same. There is hardly
>> any
>> > > >> > > > improvement:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >    - CPU still spikes to almost 100%, memory is
>> not a
>> > > >> problem
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >    - Empty video pods as well as video pods where
>> > webcam
>> > > >> > stream
>> > > >> > > > > > didn't
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > start
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > There isn't a crash, but that is mostly because I
>> > > stagger
>> > > >> it
>> > > >> > to
>> > > >> > > > > enter
>> > > >> > > > > > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > server over a 5-10min period. Which didn't crash
>> the
>> > 2GB
>> > > >> > > instance
>> > > >> > > > > > > either.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > Comparison of the CPU graphs of both hardware
>> > > >> configuration
>> > > >> > and
>> > > >> > > > > test
>> > > >> > > > > > > > runs:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/Performance+Testing#PerformanceTesting-ClusterPerformancetestresult02-022021
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > There is pretty much no improvement.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > There is some work on the application side needed.
>> > This
>> > > >> does
>> > > >> > > not
>> > > >> > > > > look
>> > > >> > > > > > > > like
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > getting better by throwing more hardware at it.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > It is really quite limiting to have no logs about
>> any
>> > > >> sort of
>> > > >> > > > > > > performance
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > indicators like call length to narrow down where
>> the
>> > > >> > bottleneck
>> > > >> > > > is.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > You may find some very low hanging fruits in terms
>> of
>> > > >> > > > optimisation
>> > > >> > > > > if
>> > > >> > > > > > > you
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > can simply concentrate on the top ten calls and
>> > optimise
>> > > >> > those.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > Rather than looking at CPU and memory graphs.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > Sebastian
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting
>> for
>> > > HTML5
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 17:18, [email protected]
>> <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > Have we ever looked into which java method would
>> > > require
>> > > >> > the
>> > > >> > > > most
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > resources/time during the process of entering the
>> > > >> > conference
>> > > >> > > > > room ?
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server Hosting
>> for
>> > > >> HTML5
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:48, Maxim Solodovnik <
>> > > >> > > > > > [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> While do load testing I did the following:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> create Jmeter test loading "semistatic"
>> stateless
>> > > error
>> > > >> > page
>> > > >> > > > > with
>> > > >> > > > > > > 300
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> simultaneous threads (I can share this test it
>> is
>> > > very
>> > > >> > > simple)
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> CPU usage of OM process was near to 100%
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> the situation is better if Tomcat has more
>> threads
>> > > >> > > (maxThread
>> > > >> > > > > > > > parameter)
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> I guess we need to check "The Ultimate Tomcat
>> > > >> Performace
>> > > >> > > > Guide"
>> > > >> > > > > > :)))
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 10:41,
>> [email protected]
>> > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > [email protected]
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Also the spikes are on the CPU actually more
>> than
>> > > on
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> > > > > memory:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/Performance+Testing#PerformanceTesting-ClusterPerformancetestresult02-022021
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > The spike is just 50-60 users.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Why would CPU spike to almost 100% just for
>> that
>> > > >> amount
>> > > >> > of
>> > > >> > > > > > users ?
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I can try with 4GB for Openmeetings and repeat
>> > the
>> > > >> test.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Seb
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Director Arrakeen Solutions, OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server
>> Hosting
>> > > for
>> > > >> > HTML5
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:34, Maxim Solodovnik
>> <
>> > > >> > > > > > > [email protected]
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 10:30,
>> > > [email protected]
>> > > >> <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > I think what you mean is you have
>> > OpenMeetings
>> > > >> and
>> > > >> > > MySQL
>> > > >> > > > > and
>> > > >> > > > > > > KMS
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > on
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> one
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > instance with 4GB.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > But its 2GB Just for OpenMeetings.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > I mean
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > 4GB just for OM (demo-next)
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > 8GB just for OM (demo-prod)
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > and this might need to be increased in case
>> of
>> > > many
>> > > >> > > users
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Additionally Tomcat's maxThreads might need
>> to
>> > be
>> > > >> > > > increased
>> > > >> > > > > > > here:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://github.com/apache/openmeetings/blob/master/openmeetings-server/src/main/assembly/conf/server.xml#L74
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > I suspect lot's of simultaneous users need
>> more
>> > > >> > > resources
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > KMS is separated with another 2GB
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > MySQL is on another server with another
>> 2GB
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > So that would be 6GB in total. But only 2
>> are
>> > > >> > > allocated
>> > > >> > > > to
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > OpenMeetings.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > XmX=2GB for OpenMeetings should be enough
>> and
>> > > not
>> > > >> > > crash
>> > > >> > > > > with
>> > > >> > > > > > > > 50-60
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > users
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > entering the room at the same time.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Thanks
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Sebastian
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Director Arrakeen Solutions,
>> OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > https://om-hosting.com - Cloud & Server
>> > > Hosting
>> > > >> for
>> > > >> > > > HTML5
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 16:26, Maxim
>> > Solodovnik <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > [email protected]
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Hello Sebastian,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > It seems 2GB of RAM is not enough for OM
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >       `OutOfMemoryError: Container
>> killed
>> > due
>> > > >> to
>> > > >> > > > memory
>> > > >> > > > > > > usage`
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > I never use less than 4GB (8-16GB in
>> > > >> production)
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 09:54, Maxim
>> > > Solodovnik <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 07:23,
>> > > >> > > [email protected]
>> > > >> > > > <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > [email protected]>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Hi,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> I have been conducting a few more
>> > > >> performance
>> > > >> > and
>> > > >> > > > > load
>> > > >> > > > > > > > tests
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> with
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > goal
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> of increasing participants to 100++.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> The challenge is:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> *If more then 50-60 users dynamically
>> > > >> create a
>> > > >> > > room
>> > > >> > > > > > Hash
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > (using
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Soap/Rest
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> API) and use that Hash to enter the
>> > > >> conference
>> > > >> > > room
>> > > >> > > > > CPU
>> > > >> > > > > > > and
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> memory
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > spikes
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> and server crashes*
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Can you share API call sequence?
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Maybe we can write JMeter scenario for
>> > > this?
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > server crash is something bad
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > What is happening? Is it a JVM crash?
>> Or
>> > is
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> > > > system
>> > > >> > > > > > low
>> > > >> > > > > > > > of
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > resources
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > and the kernel kills the
>> trouble-maker?
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> *Test scenario observations:*
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - It does not matter if those users
>> try
>> > > to
>> > > >> > enter
>> > > >> > > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > same
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> room or
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> separate
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> rooms. In the above test scenario
>> it's a
>> > > >> mix of
>> > > >> > > 4x4
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > conference
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > rooms
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > and
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> 20x1 webinars
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - This can be reproduced stable and
>> > > >> > repetitively
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - The issue starts with API calls
>> > taking
>> > > >> > 10sec++
>> > > >> > > > and
>> > > >> > > > > > > > getting
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> more
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > slower.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Until the OpenMeetings Tomcat
>> instance
>> > > >> crashes
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - The issue also manifests that
>> > -BEFORE-
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> > > > server
>> > > >> > > > > > > > crashes
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> you
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > can
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > see
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> video pods not completing the
>> > > >> initialisation in
>> > > >> > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > conference
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > room
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> itself.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> For example missing video pods or
>> video
>> > > pods
>> > > >> > > > without
>> > > >> > > > > a
>> > > >> > > > > > > > webcam
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > stream.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Likely to be linked to slow running
>> API
>> > or
>> > > >> > > > web-socket
>> > > >> > > > > > > calls
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> => I can deliver data samples or
>> > > >> screenshots if
>> > > >> > > > > > required
>> > > >> > > > > > > > via
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> our
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> confluence
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> space.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> *Hardware and software:*
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - Server and OpenMeetings Instance
>> is
>> > > >> isolated
>> > > >> > > on
>> > > >> > > > a
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > separated
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > hardware
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> and
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> has 2GB of memory allocated
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - There is no spike on KMS or
>> Database
>> > > >> > > > > > > > hardware/CPU/memory.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> The
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > spike
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > is
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> only in the OpenMeetings Tomcat
>> Server
>> > > >> instance
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> *Possible ways to mitigate without
>> code
>> > > >> > changes:*
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - You can mitigate part of this
>> issue
>> > if
>> > > >> you
>> > > >> > > > spread
>> > > >> > > > > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > users
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> to
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > enter
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> over a longer time period. However it
>> > > needs
>> > > >> > more
>> > > >> > > > than
>> > > >> > > > > > > 10min
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > separation
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > to
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> enter without issues for 50-60
>> > > participants
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - You can mitigate part of this
>> issue
>> > if
>> > > >> you
>> > > >> > for
>> > > >> > > > > > example
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> create
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> room-hash in a different process
>> (like
>> > 1h
>> > > >> > before
>> > > >> > > > > using)
>> > > >> > > > > > > and
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> once
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > all
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> hashes
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> are created you enter the conference
>> > room.
>> > > >> It
>> > > >> > > still
>> > > >> > > > > > leads
>> > > >> > > > > > > > to
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > issues,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > but
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> you can enter up to 100 users within
>> > > >> 5-10min,
>> > > >> > if
>> > > >> > > > you
>> > > >> > > > > > just
>> > > >> > > > > > > > use
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > links,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> rather than create the link AND
>> entering
>> > > >> with
>> > > >> > the
>> > > >> > > > > link
>> > > >> > > > > > at
>> > > >> > > > > > > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> same
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> time/process
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - Increasing Tomcat to more than
>> 2GB of
>> > > >> memory
>> > > >> > > per
>> > > >> > > > > > > Tomcat
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > instance
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > may
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> help, not sure by how much though
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  => I think we should spend further
>> time
>> > > and
>> > > >> > > > propose
>> > > >> > > > > > ways
>> > > >> > > > > > > > to
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> get
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > rid
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > of
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> those spikes. The mitigations are not
>> > > >> realistic
>> > > >> > > to
>> > > >> > > > > > really
>> > > >> > > > > > > > be
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> able
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > to
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > use
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> in
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> practise.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> *My proposal is:*
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> There is further analysis needed:
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - Capture all OpenMeetings calls
>> that
>> > > >> happen
>> > > >> > > > during
>> > > >> > > > > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > create
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > room
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > hash
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> and conference room-enter
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - Measure call lengths and any calls
>> > > during
>> > > >> > the
>> > > >> > > > > create
>> > > >> > > > > > > > room
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> hash
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > and
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> conference room-enter and specific
>> CPU
>> > > >> spikes
>> > > >> > or
>> > > >> > > > > memory
>> > > >> > > > > > > > usage
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > based
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > on a
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> per call basis
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>  - Eventually get a stack trace or
>> have
>> > a
>> > > >> > profile
>> > > >> > > > > > > available
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> that
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > exports
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> the current in memory objects to
>> review
>> > > >> where
>> > > >> > and
>> > > >> > > > > what
>> > > >> > > > > > > > create
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > those
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > spikes
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Once a per-call analysis is there it
>> > > should
>> > > >> be
>> > > >> > a
>> > > >> > > > lot
>> > > >> > > > > > more
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > easy
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> to
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > pinpoint
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> specific issues and propose
>> > improvements.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> As with all performance optimisation
>> > this
>> > > is
>> > > >> > > likely
>> > > >> > > > > to
>> > > >> > > > > > > need
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> more
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> discussion
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> once more detailed data is available.
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Sebastian
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Sebastian Wagner
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Director Arrakeen Solutions,
>> > > OM-Hosting.com
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> http://arrakeen-solutions.co.nz/
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> https://om-hosting.com - Cloud &
>> Server
>> > > >> > Hosting
>> > > >> > > > for
>> > > >> > > > > > > HTML5
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Video-Conferencing OpenMeetings
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> <
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/da4e8828-743d-4968-af6f-49033f10d60a/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >
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>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/b7e709c6-aa87-4b02-9faf-099038475e36/public_url
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > --
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Best regards,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Maxim
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > --
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Best regards,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Maxim
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > --
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Best regards,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Maxim
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> --
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Best regards,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Maxim
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > > > --
>> > > >> > > > > > > > Best regards,
>> > > >> > > > > > > > Maxim
>> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > --
>> > > >> > > > > > Best regards,
>> > > >> > > > > > Maxim
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > --
>> > > >> > > > Best regards,
>> > > >> > > > Maxim
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > --
>> > > >> > Best regards,
>> > > >> > Maxim
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Best regards,
>> > > > Maxim
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Best regards,
>> > > Maxim
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Maxim
>>
>

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